[Egil]

I made the fatal mistake of trying to type this topic up here instead of somewhere else and lost it all when I accidentally closed the tab. So, this isn't going to be the glorious walls of text that I had written in persuasive essay form. Let's make this quick, instead.

tl;dr IC actions should have consequences so that there's some semblance of sanity, but those consequences shouldn't end up being so unnecessarily overbearing that one is forced to play on other characters or just not play at all. One's character shouldn't be imprisoned for over an OOC week for creating conflict that is (usually) RP-provoking and promotes development in both individual characters and the world of those characters. I feel that there are two directions that this can take: You can either implement other ways for players to create conflict and make their own events (that aren't petty crimes in public) and deaths would become a more legitimate option (even if those that are dying don't want to die), or the prison sentences need to be capped out at ~3 OOC days or just not be additive in nature.

Both have pros and cons, but I personally prefer the former because I don't really want long prison sentences/execution to go away... because that'd be removing a huge chunk of the last bit of plot progression that the game has. I would rather that there be more plot progressing aspects to the game and for there to be more risks for people's characters on top of the risk of arrest/rotting in jail/etc, because the RP that guards currently generate cannot satisfy the potential of the game on it's own. For example- nowadays, if Y threatens to kill X's lover and X beats the shit out of Y for it, Y just has to not OOC’ly consent to being killed, report the incident to a guard, and bam- X will likely go to prison and Y likely will not. I want to see the game get to the point where what you say and do around people in general requires some level of foresight and hesitation that is similar to how most characters conduct themselves when guards are around, and where you can face consequences from fellow players for grievances that you can currently get away with due to a lack of tools and restrictive guidelines.

So, basically, more avenues for conflict (such as event tools given to a player that is designated as an arc villain or antagonist) and looser rules in regards to maiming/killing others.

That, in my mind, is ideal. If that happened, I wouldn't mind sitting in jail for a week because it’s my 5th time being arrested. But if the game isn't made more interesting/compelling in respects to conflict and plot, then I would really rather not be pseudo-banned for attempting to create conflict/plot in an atmosphere that is sorely lacking in both.

[Soapy]

Egil » Fri Jan 15, 2016 7:26 pm[/url]"]For example- nowadays, if Y threatens to kill X's lover and X beats the shit out of Y for it, Y just has to not OOC’ly consent to being killed, report the incident to a guard, and bam- X will likely go to prison and Y likely will not. I want to see the game get to the point where what you say and do around people in general requires some level of foresight and hesitation that is similar to how most characters conduct themselves when guards are around, and where you can face consequences from fellow players for grievances that you can currently get away with due to a lack of tools and restrictive guidelines.

It isn't hard to judge quality of roleplay. Lower your expectations for these players.

Or just have them agree to potential consequences before you go ahead and try to kill them.

Egil » Fri Jan 15, 2016 7:26 pm[/url]"]You can either implement other ways for players to create conflict and make their own events (that aren't petty crimes in public)

I already do this pretty often, and others have done so on a much larger scale (see: anything related to Bloeden).

[MegaBlues]

>implying that people wont and haven't retracted consent to death after stuff has happened

[Snake]

The point here is that jail's sort of being abused most of the time by the guards, all OOC thirsty to jail anyone for any minimal infraction. Same thirst makes most not even care to overlook simple stuff that could be solved with a kiss and a hug, and a 'gtfo now' order.
Usually is to be seen the old "Hey, sup." *looks around* "Oh X called my mom something out loud, i'm sad" "Okay, X, you're coming with me for the sake of preserving the peace." *cuffs*

"Ah Koonai pls, we need more jail RP."
True, we need RP everywhere, it's a mandatory RP game, right? But come on now. Jail is still a pseudo-ban, as said. You can't do shit when they lock you in there, some guards stay with you and talk for a bit, but if they don't like you/not friends OOC they simply walk off back to the Arena or wherever they were because staying with the prisoner is a waste of their precious fun time.
Then while jailed, nothing to do but talk to NPCs over and over, and ultimately log off.
So why not make they stay with the prisoner all the time until they log off, to make jailing less worth to be used like it's been? Isn't jailing 'tem criminal skoom' so fun? Why not hold the responsibility by themselves instead of throwing 'em to the hands of a NPC who can't say two quotes that make sense?
(OR someone apply for a Warden, way easier and can make many shut some people up about Jail not being fun at 'all'.)

[Rendar]

>Can't leave the jail.


Hold the fuck on. Did Chaos actually make it so you can't flat out use the character OOCly? If that's something he did, that's a problem.

This is a very bad thing.

That needs to be changed. Players should have access to their character at all times for an IC infraction of the Law. Restricting their access to the character OOC because of IC is something that I feel shouldn't be allowed in any degree. If guards are refusing to let you out to OOC grind/do whatever, you should really report that to Chaos (who probably won't do anything) or straight to Dev for people abusing game mechanics to make the game unplayable for someone else.

[Egil]

Soapy » Sat Jan 16, 2016 3:38 am[/url]"]
It isn't hard to judge quality of roleplay. Lower your expectations for these players.

Or just have them agree to potential consequences before you go ahead and try to kill them.

I don't have high expectations. I'm not trying to be an elitist or some grand revisionist. I just want the game itself to have incentives that encourage people to do more than just stand around accomplishing nothing in terms of their own development and the overall plot- and for their attempts to not be cockblocked by being stuck in jail for insufferable amount of times.

For example, The Tunnel Fish leader jumped me at the arena in the middle of my character planning to head out to murder a vampire in Law's End. This provoked changes in how my character conducts himself in public and what he feels towards certain people, depending on whether they helped him out, tried to hurt him, or just stood around and watched during that incident. That? That's really good RP for SL2. And for that, his character got lumped in jail for 50+ IC days. If I'm not mistaken, that's far beyond an OOC week. Even if he has alts or other things to do beyond SL2, I find that happening to one of the only people provoking any conflict when they were just getting the ball rolling to be... well, disgusting?

Soapy » Sat Jan 16, 2016 3:38 am[/url]"]
I already do this pretty often, and others have done so on a much larger scale (see: anything related to Bloeden).

What Bloeden did was amazing- but in the 2-3 months that I've been playing this game, it's the only truly provocative stuff that I've seen, and it was sparse in these past few months, from my view. I'm not saying that something groundbreaking needs to happen everyday or even every week, but I don't think anyone can contest that SL2 is underwhelming in regards to major events. Something like 'oh, we figured out the source of The Black Beasts and it's location is near Lispool, whoever goes there and destroys it will earn x, y, and z' and then people go there expecting a dungeon only to find a tower that can't be approached because of a field of focus, which means more needs to be discovered/done before the BB source can be directly confronted- that sort of stuff would be really nice and wouldn't take a lot of programming time at all.

Hell, I'd donate 10$ or 20$ if that was the only way to get things like that rolling into the next update.

>Can't leave the jail.


Hold the fuck on. Did Chaos actually make it so you can't flat out use the character OOCly? If that's something he did, that's a problem.

This is a very bad thing.

That needs to be changed. Players should have access to their character at all times for an IC infraction of the Law. Restricting their access to the character OOC because of IC is something that I feel shouldn't be allowed in any degree. If guards are refusing to let you out to OOC grind/do whatever, you should really report that to Chaos (who probably won't do anything) or straight to Dev for people abusing game mechanics to make the game unplayable for someone else.

Yeah, I've never been allowed to leave to grind or do anything OOC'ly. The first two times I got arrested, I would log on and sit around, waiting for guards/visitors. Now I've learned to just log off and do other things.

[Soapy]

Egil » Fri Jan 15, 2016 9:34 pm[/url]"]What Bloeden did was amazing- but in the 2-3 months that I've been playing this game, it's the only truly provocative stuff that I've seen, and it was sparse in these past few months, from my view. I'm not saying that something groundbreaking needs to happen everyday or even every week, but I don't think anyone can contest that SL2 is underwhelming in regards to major events.

If you want to usurp the emperor and declare war on other nations every week, play Eternia. It was made for that.

If you want a slice of life with occasional (usually private) conflict, play SL. It was made for that.
There are more things happening than you think - you're just not a part of them.

[Egil]

Eternia grinding/PvP competitiveness is more stressful for me than SL2's. I also didn't have anyone to show me the ropes, which didn't help.

I understand what you're saying, and once again, I don't want huge changes just to fully satisfy my own desires. I just think that the way things currently are- both the prison system and the slice of life, unmoving nature of the plot- are things that the majority of players are either indifferent towards or would like to see changes in. If I'm wrong, cool, but if I'm right- that the majority of the active playerbase doesn't particularly enjoy how things are right now- then I think change of some sort would be appropriate. If you feel that the change should be 'You should just play another game' instead of 'Alright, let's alter Sigrogana Legends 2', though, that's completely fair. I just feel differently.

[Clockworkers Doll]

Soapy » Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:05 am[/url]"]If you want a slice of life with occasional (usually private) conflict, play SL. It was made for that.

Was just asked to post what I said in Skype:
[8:23:53 PM] Kyle Broflovski: it's a fantasy mmorpg. not to say those can't be slice of life, but real life is not crowded with people who want to shove their weapons into everyone else's rectums and scantily clad women fucking eachother every 5 minutes.
[8:24:34 PM] Kyle Broflovski: slice of life implies that these things happen in real life and that is the main focus
[8:24:34 PM] Kyle Broflovski: 75% of sl2 things don't happen irl.
[8:25:09 PM] Kyle Broflovski: i don't walk half way across my country without breaking a sweat to see if my friend is there

But, in my usual annoying fashion, I'll continue anyways. The only way SL2 even slightly resembles real life is some of the talks you can hear people having. The way some things are advertised (Sderg's Arena and Tourny being one of them, through poster and oral promotion), and having a possible family. Speaking of which, is way less difficult to come by IRL than in SL2, since there's more of an equal scale of male to female.
As I mentioned before, Slice of Life does lean more towards the implication that these things happen to real people, and not just fictional ones. Even in anime (Lucky Star, K-On!!, Free!, Watamote, etc.) Apologies for using Wikipedia (for those snobby types who think it's not a credible source...), but:
"Slice of life is a phrase describing the use of mundane realism depicting everyday experiences in art and entertainment." / "The literary term refers to a storytelling technique that presents a seemingly arbitrary sample of a character's life, which often lacks a coherent plot, conflict, or ending. The story may have little plot progress and often has no exposition, conflict, or dénouement, with an open ending."
Neither of these descriptions describe SL2 accurately. Does SL2 have the elements of a slice of life story at some points? Yes, it does. There are often boring points where character go through these, and it's natural, and they can be similar to those seen in real life experiences. The rest of SL2 is a fantasy/sci-fi (is not only from guns and mechinations) MMORPG, and all if not most events in SL2 show you this clear as day.
Dev's plot of Kinu trying to find the God Graves along with the player? Yeah, stuff likes this happens irl. Little Timmy the 18 year old boy with Dragon Wings completely mastered the art of being a Monk and can beat trained professionals? Yeah, my cousin did that last weak. Some girl wearing only a pretty dress with beautiful long hair perfectly mastering the art of magic that can destroy litterally everyone? Became one of those last month. Little miss Princess Handjob becomes a successful rich woman because she can wreck everyone who challenges her to a fight while Dave the Scientist invents space flight and gets nothing for it because he can't even throw a punch? Happens all the time.

[Mivereous]

Egil » Fri Jan 15, 2016 10:34 pm[/url]"]Yeah, I've never been allowed to leave to grind or do anything OOC'ly. The first two times I got arrested, I would log on and sit around, waiting for guards/visitors. Now I've learned to just log off and do other things.

Asking over OOC for a guard is a way to get out, if the guard is willing to stay with you (I don't know how the others would feel about that, but I would be fine with it, just as an OOC manner). Most of the playerbase knows how to contact one guard or another. I think my (and others) Skype info is over there, under my name. Of course, the only problem would be if the guard has to leave for an IRL reason, the prisoner would need to be immediately agreeable to heading back to their cell, no questions.

A separate discussion has been skirted lazily about more activities in the prison to allow prisoners to gain EXP and have break out attempts (performing maybe a repeatable 'make everyone dinner' quest in the kitchen, breaking rocks in a mine, etc).

Rendar » Fri Jan 15, 2016 9:11 pm[/url]"]>Can't leave the jail.

Hold the fuck on. Did Chaos actually make it so you can't flat out use the character OOCly? If that's something he did, that's a problem, etc

As an 'RP mandatory' game, I see a lot about OOC character use. Weird. Refer to first part of post, though. Having these options would be an easy start to allow leveling and RP development (please someone break out of jail).

Snake » Fri Jan 15, 2016 9:04 pm[/url]"]"Ah Koonai pls, we need more jail RP."
True, we need RP everywhere, it's a mandatory RP game, right? But come on now. Jail is still a pseudo-ban, as said. You can't do shit when they lock you in there, some guards stay with you and talk for a bit, but if they don't like you/not friends OOC they simply walk off back to the Arena or wherever they were because staying with the prisoner is a waste of their precious fun time.
Then while jailed, nothing to do but talk to NPCs over and over, and ultimately log off.
So why not make they stay with the prisoner all the time until they log off, to make jailing less worth to be used like it's been? Isn't jailing 'tem criminal skoom' so fun? Why not hold the responsibility by themselves instead of throwing 'em to the hands of a NPC who can't say two quotes that make sense?
(OR someone apply for a Warden, way easier and can make many shut some people up about Jail not being fun at 'all'.)

I usually leave because, for some reason, shit may happen right after an arrest, and vigilance is key. If there's more guards on than just myself, I stay and chat (unless it's like 3 AM, sorry) until they log off. The objective of law isn't to babysit by way of entertaining criminals, but to babysit by way of protecting law abiding citizens.

I'd be willing to volunteer for a warden position, if that were to become an option. Chaos said there wasn't room for me behind the desk, though. >:| I'd have to bring my own.