[rosheka]

While this is true, there is no way to prove that a spell in SL2 is Somatic or Component, therefore Silence shuts off all spells.

[iDarkCara]

I wanted to break down this post because I thoroughly agree with the majority of points:

Silence has always been a thing to completely shut off mages for decades. So, I would have to disagree with the ability to still 'cast' the spells, even while silenced. In my years of fantasy RPG's, once you've silenced a mage, that's it.

Yeah, making silence kinda silent isn't really the way to go in that aspect. I feel the nostalgia factor play in here.

You know how to shut off melee with magic? Cast your spells before they can get close enough.

This game doesn't have that factor. Too many gap closers. imo.

Which brings me to this:

However, I would still like to see Silent Prayer actually getting a buff to provide Silence Immunity since it costs SP, FP, and 3M (as compared to a simple throat opener). That'd be the best.

Yes, yes, 100% yes. Grant the things that cure Silence, a short duration of Silence Immunity.

For a class primarily focused on support and healing effects, I don't see why it can't take the White Mage Esuna route, and have a little immunity. Perhaps even going as far as able to impact party members.

-- I was honestly not aware Screamer removed the silence w/ hex. It should not do that, in my opinion.

[Zakizo]

rosheka » Thu Jan 21, 2016 1:57 am[/url]"]Then why recommend such horrible and unbalanced things that make a caster just as useless as if they were silenced, or making the status just as useless? Like any of the Hexer spells you suggested not giving them the ability to inflict their status conditions, makes a Hexer ENTIRELY useless, since they are a caster class based solely on the fact to inflict status conditions.

Hexers are capable of doing damage outside of status effects, despite what people seem to think. Not against everyone, it's true, but the same can be said for melee classes. At least they would have more options available to them, and at least they would be able to try to fight back. Silence would also still be useful. Having the effects removed from all of your spells is reason enough to not want to be silenced, but when was the last time you ever heard someone say "I'd better remove this burn/poison/interference/blind or I'll lose for sure."? Probably never. These status' are bad, but they don't completely take away your ability to fight back like Silence can (and does). A status not being the end-all to your opponent does not make it useless, it makes it balanced.

Have you ever played anything else other than SL2, that's fantasy based? It's not tradition. It's literally how things work.

That's literally what we call "tradition." When something tends to be implemented the same way because that's the way it's been up to that point. SL does not have to share the mechanics of other fantasy games, there is no reason for it to do so as it has no relation to them. There's no universal law for how something has to work in a fantasy environment. Not to mention in other fantasy games you control more than one unit. In SL you may have a party, but you, the player, control only one character. If they're rendered useless, you don't have other units to control. There goes your fun, enjoy being a spectator in your own battle. Ultimately, the fact that it was done a certain way in other games does not automatically make it a good idea in this one.

[rosheka]

As I'm starting to sense a bit of hostility, I'm going to step away from this conversation now, but I leave you with this.

If there were a way to prove that spells have Verbal, Somatic, or Component requirements, then I would agree with you, for the sole reason of Silence only shutting off Verbal things. Until then, however, no.

[Ranylyn]

rosheka » Wed Jan 20, 2016 9:36 pm[/url]"]If there were a way to prove that spells have Verbal, Somatic, or Component requirements, then I would agree with you, for the sole reason of Silence only shutting off Verbal things. Until then, however, no.

But we have a way to prove that. It's called Dev.

Dev, your thoughts?

*obligatory burying of this post so Dev never sees it*

[Zakizo]

rosheka » Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:36 am[/url]"]As I'm starting to sense a bit of hostility, I'm going to step away from this conversation now, but I leave you with this.

If there were a way to prove that spells have Verbal, Somatic, or Component requirements, then I would agree with you, for the sole reason of Silence only shutting off Verbal things. Until then, however, no.

No hostility, but keep your arguments balance-related, please. There was never anything strictly stated in lore about the status of the current spells. Invocations are obviously verbal due to the chants required, which is why I recommended Silence still disable them entirely. There are no chants for non-invocation spells, but I didn't want Silence to simply leave them untouched, as then it really would be a largely useless status. I believe my suggestion is perfectly in line as far as role-play elements go, so if you have a balance argument, please share it. But I'm obviously opposed to it staying as a lock-out status.

[Chaos]

Zakizo » Wed Jan 20, 2016 9:14 pm[/url]"] A status not being the end-all to your opponent does not make it useless, it makes it balanced.

Allowing a ton of spells to still work on a Status Effect specifically intended to work against spellcasters is completely horrendous balance. A few spells that ignore Silence, or actions meant to get rid of Silence, are quite fair.

That being said, this isn't SL1 nor D&D. We don't have to prove shit about Verbal/Somatic/Component requirements to say 'this spell ignores silence'.

[Zakizo]

Chaos » Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:47 am[/url]"]

Zakizo » Wed Jan 20, 2016 9:14 pm[/url]"] A status not being the end-all to your opponent does not make it useless, it makes it balanced.

Allowing a ton of spells to still work on a Status Effect specifically intended to work against spellcasters is completely horrendous balance. A few spells that ignore Silence, or actions meant to get rid of Silence, are quite fair.

Burn is intended to work against tanks, but it doesn't reduce their DEF to 0 and disable the use of Guard, Protect, Castling, and every other defensive skill in the book. A status meant to hurt a specific character type more than others isn't the problem, a status completely disabling a specific character type is the problem. That said, since the primary purpose of this thread was to give casters a way to fight back while silenced as opposed to being rendered entirely useless, I'm not opposed to an alternative where certain spells are still available for casting while silenced.

[Shujin]

The problem with your suggestion is, that you can charge mind+do whatever but invos even while silenced. I do not see where this is balanced at all, you can literally not stop the mage from casting tons of damage then.

So removing just some minor sideeffects from evoker spells like ice tiles (seriously?) an still doing 200+ damage is... Meh.(yeah I know you said you are in favor of chargemind being not consumeable, which makes it not so bad.)


Having some skills from the mage being able to be casted, while silenced would be nice. But not making silence literally useless. So we meet somewhere in the middle off not doing anything and doing everything with almost no downside.

So mainly I agree with chaos here.

(oh and the status thing for certain melee? Blind shuts down pretty much all not autohit users, worse with fear. But surely not as bad as silence, since you can have ways around it aswell. Also alot more rare than silence. But unrelevant here in this discussion)