[Neus]

Just posting to say that I haven't forgotten about this, however I would like a little testing done with the new talents to see if the scalings still hold up or need adjusting. So, when the beta hits, keep this in mind and let me know your thoughts.

[Rendar]

Neus / Dev

I really doubt +5 to some elemental scaling will really make the world of difference. Most of these skills, currently, can't even compare to other multi-hit moves from other classes. Crystal Rose does more friggin damage than sear for crying out loud!

I think I'd prefer to see this sort of scaling alongside that, see how they compare together. If it needs adjusting, it'll get it.

[Chaos]

Just posting to say that I haven't forgotten about this, however I would like a little testing done with the new talents to see if the scalings still hold up or need adjusting. So, when the beta hits, keep this in mind and let me know your thoughts.

Normally, I would agree with the 'lets test this out first' logic. But in this case, there is almost no difference between the old -mancy talents and the new -mancy talents where affected offensive spells are concerned.

As it currently stands, four elements can get up to +5 Spell Power each; this value can't be reduced or boosted by any means. With the new system, every element that has a spell for it gets +5 Elemental ATK. This is affected by elemental scaling in most offensive spells. Now here's the kicker: As it stands with offensive spells, there is usually a very minor increase in elemental scaling between ranks, and there are only a handful of spells that reach (let alone bypass) 100% elemental scaling.

Put these together, and you'll see offensive spells either remaining roughly the same, gaining a very minor buff, or taking a very minor nerf. In other words, it's likely that spell damage will remain roughly the same. If very minor buffs were all that we needed to make spells work, this topic wouldn't have the suggestions I originally pitched.

[Neus]

Let me rephrase;

I'm not going to have time to touch this right now, but I want to when I can. When you test in the beta, you should see if any of the new talents make much difference to your calculations, so they don't make your intended result too strong or too weak.

[Raigen.Convict]

All my yes on top of yes drenched in yes with a yes on top! +9000

[Exxy]

Let me rephrase;

I'm not going to have time to touch this right now, but I want to when I can. When you test in the beta, you should see if any of the new talents make much difference to your calculations, so they don't make your intended result too strong or too weak.

THANK YOU.

Also, some of the scalings could stand to be toned down from their current rates. Especially since the +5% Resistance from Mancies will no longer exist and I rather not see a 1,000+ damage Exgalfa or other things. There are also other things to take into account on this, aside from what was mentioned so far, I'd recommend scrapping this and starting back over after this Beta hits Live.

[Autumn]

Magic is still in a bit of a bad spot right now, even with all the changes in GR part 2, and especially Evoker.

[Chaos]

Post-GR2 calculations, comparisons with pre-GR2 calculations, as well as a few tests where necessary, have shown minor, if not negligible, changes:

• The new -mancy Elemental ATK boosts provided only a scant few points as far as Fire/Ice/Wind/Earth spells went; other elements gave results that were both expected and quite tame
  
  
• -Mancy cost reductions do not cause an extreme drop in FP cost, as far as the very few spells that list an FP cost reduction are concerned
  
  
• All calculations rarely took passive Elemental Resistance into account; they usually went with either no resistance or substantial resistance stacking in the first place, and results between these extremes were reasonably projected/worked out; in other words, a lesser amount of elemental resistances were taken into account a long time ago
  
  
• Astrology signs provided an even less impactful boost to Elemental ATK; even during Prominence, the boosts did not swing calculations any more than initially expected
  
  
• Prayer bonuses are in roughly the same category as Astrology signs, though a little more potent and much more consistent
  
  
• White Spirits only provide a minor scaling boost in most cases; Elemental ATK scaling sees anywhere between a +10%~+20% increase amongst all spells brought up for revamp, and Scaled ATK scaling is either static (for +5% per two ranks spells, Rank 7 is required for 115% Scaled ATK) or sees a paltry +5% increase; given a metric ton of Elemental/Scaled ATK boosting, a high-end boost from a White Spirit would be around +19, which can only grow significantly within one of three Evoker invocations, aided by Charge Mind
  
  
• Secondary effects within spell revisions are not particularly imbalanced by White Spirits
  
  
• In addition, any use of White Spirits enables Holy/Antithesis against the caster, providing a rather strong counterbalance to the usually-minor boosts listed above
  
  
• The removal of +2 WIL from Fluency is negligible, aside from a potential few choice cases that make stat allotment a point or two stricter
  
  
• While critical Ryemei has some potential to go for broke, Fulgurmancy's critical damage boost is not big enough to be an issue on its own; as for Ryemei's critical, due to the amount of RNG involved, I would like to see the revamped spell in normal play before going any further

Overall, it appears that the GR2 update, while providing a slight buff to offensive spells with the revamped -mancy talents, did not make any notable progress to balancing out magic. At the time, I see no need for any immediate changes, and I seriously recommend that we go forward with what's provided in the OP.

[Neus]

Noted, I'm probably not going to copy and paste all of your suggestions though. I don't think giving mages -much- larger Scaled ATK bonuses to spells is as desirable as giving them stronger elemental ATK scaling, although I'll probably do a bit of both, either way.

I'll probably also take this time to outright change problem spells and maybe add some new mechanics to existing ones, as suggested.

[Esther]

Why does a mage who wants to use fire need to be strong like a fighter?