[Autumn]

Sidecut's range was 'nerfed' technically in the last update, to be 3 range instead of 4, and while that was a bug, I don't think anyone had a problem with sidecut's old range, so I'm requesting that sidecut be changed back to 4 range instead of 3, is that possible?

(Sillcut was unaffected by the change and still remains at 4 range)

[Soapy]

I actually prefer it at 3, especially now that Voltiger is a thing.

I think sillcut should be lowered if anything, but that might be just me.

[Exxy]

As of now, I don't believe Voltiger has a cap (needs confirmation on my part; but the way I remembered it, it doesn't - could just be me remembering it wrong)?? If Voltiger received some form of cap I could definitely see Sidecut being returned to as-was (standing at 4 instead of 3 base range).

Halfly tempted to agree with Soapy on Sillcut though.

[Autumn]

If there were more ways to proc Flottement other than Evasion and dodging from the front, I'd be fine with that, but there really isn't, and not everyone has evasion (to which, most people can only get flottement this way due to no one attacking from the front intentionally anyway), and just because Voltiger is a thing does not excuse that tanks that frequently used this skill are also left in the dust, that's not a fair alternative, I'm sorry.

The skill was never 'unfair' in the first place when it was a 4 range dash, it can be stopped by immobilize and the such.

As of now, I don't believe Voltiger has a cap

To confirm, Voltiger does have a cap, lvl 25.

[Exxy]

If there were more ways to proc Flottement other than Evasion I'd be fine with that, but there isn't, and just because Voltiger is a thing does not excuse that tanks that frequently used this skill are also left in the dust, that's not a fair alternative, I'm sorry.

The skill was never 'unfair' in the first place when it was a 4 range dash, it can be stopped by immobilize and the such.

I thought Flottement could also be triggered via Dodge?

I'm also uncertain what you mean by "tanks being left in the dust." Do you mean they're unable to make use of it now effectively or something else?--

[Autumn]

I did mention dodging from the front afterwards, as an edit, forgot to include that at that time.

by left in the dust I mean they are stuck with less range than before, that's all.

My point being brought up is it was never unfair as a skill before, and the range decrease is an issue with pegging down a skill that was never really considered awful to deal with. (Compared to hanging this skill is not nearly as good standalone)

[Exxy]

Ultimately I can agree with Sidecut being returned to pre-nerf status but Voltiger receiving a bonus to range every other Rank (1,3,5) instead of each one (1,2,3,etc) seems a step in the right direction as well if we're addressing the range issue.

As it stood (pre-nerf), you could slightly more-than double it's range which gave it a fairly large hit-and-run window that could still pack a punch within the same action (especially when damage-stacked on).


Although the range nerf was probably well-meant (in terms of fixing a technicality) but I honestly think the real issue lies elsewhere (at least in the case of Sidecut). Like I said, I ultimately agree with the OP and am semi-tempted to agree with Soaps on Sillcut (despite it being more situational in most occasions, either in the rare "Checkers" occasion or when comboing Sidecut and Sillcut together).

I also apologize with diverting the thread, but felt it was something that tied into the general topic enough to warrant it.

[Autumn]

It's fine, there's no need to apologize, after all, balance fu is more so for discussion on whether something should or shouldn't be.

Flottement itself is something that can be discussed another time but I see no issue with what you posted either.

[Esther]

Sidecut was never a 4-range skill. It was a 3-range line of attacks that placed you on the ~destination~ of the fourth tile. No attack happened in the 4th tile. The fact that the targeting highlight included that 4th tile was actually really awkward.

Now? Sidecut is a 2-range skill, because even though the 3rd square is highlighted, no attack happens in that square.

[Trexmaster]

Sidecut was never a 4-range skill. It was a 3-range line of attacks that placed you on the ~destination~ of the fourth tile. No attack happened in the 4th tile. The fact that the targeting highlight included that 4th tile was actually really awkward.

Now? Sidecut is a 2-range skill, because even though the 3rd square is highlighted, no attack happens in that square.

It wasn't technically 4-range for the attacks, but that's how long the line was, you just needed the end square to be a valid tile due to traveling the distance of the skill (which was 4 tiles). If it didn't include the final tile, you'd get tossed into solid objects.

Now you travel 3 tiles, instead of 4. (and subsequently can hit up to two targets, instead of three)

The point of this thread is whether or not Sidecut should go back to being 4 range, though.

I don't think Sidecut was overbearing at its old range, and as stated, Voltiger exists, so whether or not this change is made, it'll barely have any effect on that interaction.

I see some people bringing up Sillcut, to which I can agree, considering its diagonal movement, gaining tiles means it effectively travels twice as far per tile. If we're slapping a nerf on it, I'd say reducing the tile gain it gets from Voltiger by half would be a start.