[Kameron8]

A branching topic from this thread. I and many other people believe that guns, as a weapon type, should once again gain the static power bonus to each shot. To avoid sounding like I'm just restarting the same thread all over again, I'll try to be concise and emphasize why guns in particular are different from the other weapons in the game.

First and foremost, as was adequately covered in the linked thread, multhits lost a disproportionate amount of power when compared to the rest of the weapons in the game. This has nothing to do with autohits versus basic attacks, but has everything to do with a multhit weapon doing less damage than almost every sword, axe, dagger, etc, in the game. This was stressed sufficiently enough in the other thread that I won't flood this post with math unless requested to do so.

Secondly, Magic Gunner and guns in general were designed with this old system in mind -- Akimbo used to drop the skill scaling from weapons, and then the stat scaling when GR came. Now, all it does is shoot a bullet that has no weapon power scaling, no stat scaling, and always does 1 damage.



Firing off bullets that always do a single point of damage does not seem like the intended vision of Akimbo. Riposte was a heated conversation point when its interaction with guns came up. It was decided that there was no reason for it to give the gun any scaling when it occurred. Now? Riposte will do zero damage, as there will be no scaling, and no power. There is no pity rounding error to give it 1 damage this time.



All of this can change depending on what modifiers are being stacked for on-hit or on-crit effects, but should every person using a multihit gun really do less damage than fists, bows, and swords when they open themselves up to the biggest hard counters in the game? No Quickdraw in existence now can do more damage than a tank's Bellplate can. Please consider specifically designating guns as weapons that gain power per shot.

[Snake]

Absolute Death + Vorpal Strike with a Quickdraw. This is literally the most raw form of damage from the weapon, and going by basic game math, a person's damage reduction plus whatsoever extra percentages (like 1v1, indomitable, ogata's waraji, etc.) will gib it even further if it wasn't a Vorpal Strike.

I've used to do 50+ on Vorpal Strikes, with all damage amplification buffs applied. Now? It's but a joke. Multi-shot once had the role of shredding tanks, now tanks are getting hit by peashooters that get nullified with 100% probability by Matador.

[Rendar]

I mean. I'd actually be open to the idea of guns just flat out ignoring defense and armor. Since. You know. They're fucking guns (and there are literal fucking rocket launchers that do piss poor damage.)

This would likely see a rise in people building bellplate/fang shield/brighten.. but that's good. It'd give people a reason to actually be afraid of guns that wasn't "Ope, well. X has a MLM + Quickdraw. Better just an-hero him."

[Grandpa]

I think I'd rather them just returning to how they were before instead of outright ignoring defenses. That's a little.... Overwhelming. And doesn't really make sense. I mean. A bulletproof vest stops bullets. Not that we have those, but you get the point.

[Snake]

Thing is, it's not overwhelming when the maximum damage of a Vorpal Strike (note: Vorpal treats as if enemy PDR is 0%), is 20-30 per bullet. And like I mentioned, 30 easily becomes 15 damage, 20 becomes 10 damage, etc.

[Rendar]

We do actually have 'bulletproof vests'. They're called a detective Trench Coat. And the Magnetic shield, etc.

The only issue I could see with this is how MLM interacts (and thus bringing back quickdraw + MLM meta for the cheesy bullshit crits). Nerf MLM's effect (so its not just to every god damn crit) and you make the effect somewhat more bearable, and then ignoring DEF isn't so much of an issue. VIT is your ability to withstand a blow. Defense is just how well you guard against it. Kensei can slice the bullet, but someone in armor is prolly just gonna stand there like an idiot as they're shot.

Even if it was **reduced** Phys Def, it'd still be better than full Phys Def.

[Autumn]

Can we just do something simple and go with the OP and make sure guns are in the same position they were before with power bonuses per shot, and not some stuff like making them ignore half-def or full def, I'd prefer that, that's the way guns worked before.

Multihits were damage, single shots were utility, in most cases.

[Nanovelich]

I agree with Spoops. I'd really rather that we didn't just roll back to the whole ignoring Def bit, because that just undermines the difference between someone decked out in heavy armor and some VIT-pumped Aquamancer in a dainty little rainbow cloak.

Guns were pretty okay before, MLM shenanigans aside.

[Snake]

In one side we have a Gun. Setup: . The other, a Fang-Faced Shield. Setup: Just lol-equip and lol-guard.

FIGHT!!

Battle Log: https://pastebin.com/1YJAUMzd




Fang Faced Shield wins. FATALITY.

Before nerf, guns could at least be on pair with Fang-Faced in damage. Now? GG boy. Make multi-hitting guns ignore Physical Damage Reduction. Please.

[Snake]

Speaking of this. Why don't we make guns stronger (able to ignore DEF/Phys.Reduction, mostly), but at the trade of the 'reload' mechanic?

It was a discussion in the past, no? Something around guns having to spend an extra 3M to reload their rounds. I can't see a better time to not implement it now, along with a gun scaling buff and new specialty of shredding tanks.