[PantherPrincess]

Eclair Lacroix's scaling is far too high as it stands. It's become the immediate go to for every two handing (or even vent petale) duelist because it doesn't use your faith at all scaling wise just your SWA by 200% which is frankly overkill and way too high it's like looking at boxer's old scaling. Nerf the scaling by either lowering it to 160-170% SWA or make it include your faith/light atk. The damage received from this skill right now is somewhere in the 250-300+ bracket that is FAR too high for a skill that can be used across the map, does magical damage which we all know is the best to have in your skillpool, out-does evoker which is supposed to be the biggest magical buster class, and hasn't had it's CD implemented which I'm hoping is still 5 rounds. It's like Kadouha all over again.

[Autumn]

The SWA should be fine so long as the explosion doesn't double tap enemies, similar to kadouha's explosion.

[PantherPrincess]

The explosion isn't even the issue its the first hit. That scaling is outrageous just admit it. 200%? What skill has that kind of scaling now days. I tested eclair multiple times on res tanks of mine as well as other peoples, it is way too good as it stands and utterly devastating to anyone not packing extremely high resistance aka 50 scaled and above. Even then it leaves a nice large dent in someone.

[WaifuApple]

You do need to keep in mind the drawbacks this move has before attempting to suggest any kind of nerf to it. It doesn't seem like you've taken those into consideration when crying for a nerf.

First drawback is that you can't use this skill after you've used a movement skill. So, apart from a few certain ways of moving, it's a choice between using this move, or getting close and hitting a crit, to give yourself another move. That would likely cover the damage Eclair provides. It's also subject to evasion, unlike those basic hit moves.

Second Drawback is that using it turns you to face away from when you fired it. This can be a major thing if you use Eclair last, since it'll give people an avenue to strike you from the back, which means your riposte, eviter, and flottlement from duelist won't proc. This leaves you open to attacks that you can't retaliate as easily against. If you also take into account Cobra, for the people who also use DH, that becomes of little use, too, as they can just attack you from the back easily. Essentially, using Eclair last leaves you more open.

It could, however, possibly do with a cooldown, or with being 4M instead of 3M. It is a problem when it can be spammed, but removing any spam ability for it will make it fall way more in line balance wise.

In summary, I believe there needs to be no scaling change. Just some measure in place that means you can't double-use the move for some big damage. There is also the change suggested by Spo, which will also reduce that damage further. But all in all? Facing off against someone using this move? I faired just as well as I would against any duelist. There are way more damaging moves that can be spammed out there.

Way I see it, too, 40-50 scaled RES/DEF is average in a tank. So I wouldn't call the tanks you tested on all that tanky, which might explain why it hurts them so much more.

[Autumn]

That scaling is outrageous just admit it. 200%? What skill has that kind of scaling now days.

Literally directly below it is a skill of equal scaling but has guard break and ignores evasion.

In my opinion Eclair Lacroix shouldn't ignore Evasion or have Guard Break on it, considering its looking to be magical in nature rather than a forceful attack.

The biggest problem about Eclair Lacroix in my opinion is that the explosion can hit enemies hit by the initial beam, I think if it acted like Kadouha where that interaction didn't exist it'd be a lot more comparable, as they usually only can get used once or twice in a fight, for an absolutely MASSIVE FP cost mind you.

ALSO, Eclair Lacroix is supposed to have the same downsides, the fact it doesn't have a cooldown and can be used after basic movement is a bug as far as I know, thats what I was told anyway, and if it somehow isn't a bug it very well -should- have a 5T cooldown.

[PantherPrincess]

You do need to keep in mind the drawbacks this move has before attempting to suggest any kind of nerf to it. It doesn't seem like you've taken those into consideration when crying for a nerf.

First drawback is that you can't use this skill after you've used a movement skill. So, apart from a few certain ways of moving, it's a choice between using this move, or getting close and hitting a crit, to give yourself another move. That would likely cover the damage Eclair provides. It's also subject to evasion, unlike those basic hit moves.

Second Drawback is that using it turns you to face away from when you fired it. This can be a major thing if you use Eclair last, since it'll give people an avenue to strike you from the back, which means your riposte, eviter, and flottlement from duelist won't proc. This leaves you open to attacks that you can't retaliate as easily against. If you also take into account Cobra, for the people who also use DH, that becomes of little use, too, as they can just attack you from the back easily. Essentially, using Eclair last leaves you more open.

It could, however, possibly do with a cooldown, or with being 4M instead of 3M. It is a problem when it can be spammed, but removing any spam ability for it will make it fall way more in line balance wise.

In summary, I believe there needs to be no scaling change. Just some measure in place that means you can't double-use the move for some big damage. There is also the change suggested by Spo, which will also reduce that damage further. But all in all? Facing off against someone using this move? I faired just as well as I would against any duelist. There are way more damaging moves that can be spammed out there.

Way I see it, too, 40-50 scaled RES/DEF is average in a tank. So I wouldn't call the tanks you tested on all that tanky, which might explain why it hurts them so much more.

I've taken a lot into consideration actually but since I'm crying sure let me just dissect your whole simple minded post since I can tell you don't want to let this skill go that easily.

One: Basic movement is the drawback not all movement meaning things like crane hop, backflip, winged serpent, DISENGAGE (gee it must be so difficult to pull it off now that they have this skill), and basically every other skill that allows some form of movement works (retreating swipe, chaser, sidecut, etc.). Aside from that why are they moving? Duelist can now freeze people in place :^). Subject to evasion? Duelists love skill and hit don't make me laugh, this only works in your favor rarely not so much anymore since dodge got an ugly haircut.

Two: It doesn't turn you the opposite way after you use it idk where you got this idea but after getting hit with it 500 times today and using it myself while writing this post I can tell you it leaves you facing them. Thus this whole point was invalid and cushioning. Seems like you yourself actually didn't do much research for it. Edit: It seems its happening randomly to me where only sometimes I turn backwards.

Three: 50+ Res is not average at all. It is not 70 res but is nowhere near average. Average Resistance in this game is about 25-30. So again I urge you to do your research before trying to make me look less knowledgeable.

And for a bonus treat heres Four:
I managed to do this on a LE'd char with a sword scaling at 76 power but yea ya know it's not broken at all.

[PantherPrincess]

That scaling is outrageous just admit it. 200%? What skill has that kind of scaling now days.

Literally directly below it is a skill of equal scaling but has guard break and ignores evasion.

In my opinion Eclair Lacroix shouldn't ignore Evasion or have Guard Break on it, considering its looking to be magical in nature rather than a forceful attack.

The biggest problem about Eclair Lacroix in my opinion is that the explosion can hit enemies hit by the initial beam, I think if it acted like Kadouha where that interaction didn't exist it'd be a lot more comparable, as they usually only can get used once or twice in a fight, for an absolutely MASSIVE FP cost mind you.

ALSO, Eclair Lacroix is supposed to have the same downsides, the fact it doesn't have a cooldown and can be used after basic movement is a bug as far as I know, thats what I was told anyway, and if it somehow isn't a bug it very well -should- have a 5T cooldown.

Point taken but it is still physical damage compared to magical damage. It /hurts/ quite badly that is the problem.

[Autumn]

Why exactly did you crop out the name of what you attacked though? With 76 power you would reach 152 damage, 167 with 1v1, and with hunted lv17 that'd reach 195 damage which is very close to the damage number you're pulling.

Which leads me to believe you're attacking a target with no RES like a Prinny which is against the point you're trying to prove here? Here's the damage number I hit with LDL with 120 SWA.

[PantherPrincess]

The person didn't want it in the SS. They also had only 25 res.

[WaifuApple]

For Point One: Yes, it is basic movement, but a lot of those moves you've stated move you in a straight line only. As I said in this point, you want to get close to be able to crit them and move again. A lot of those moves will only help you situationally, if you're to the direct left, right, up, or down of them. Otherwise, most of these are not much use. Some can do that, however, I concede. It is still a drawback however. Not everyone is carrying basic or ice crystal rose either. They lose out on good things like lightning crits and leaving cinders everywhere. So the frozen debuff does seem like it isn't going to be as common as made out to be. The frozen debuff itself though, should not be accounted for in balancing this, because that in itself likely needs balancing in a different way. [because being able to apply and reapply a debuff that sets evade completely to 0 for one free hit does have some balance issues to it.]



For Point Two: Here's a gif showing it turning you backwards. It's programmed in, and if it does not do that all the time, I imagine the times it does not turn is a bug. But bugs should not subtract from the point made. The point I made remains strong. That is a real disadvantage. Sure, you deal a lot of damage to them, but they're invited to do the exact same to you, in any means they can, with a lot of your defensive abilities rendered useless because they don't apply for attacks on the back.

For Point Three: If you're building a tank with 25-30 resistance, good luck. I've faced many tanks and they've all been around 50 in both. That's what it takes to not get obliterated, after all. It's the average amount a good tank needs, and the average I see in a good tank, and if you see it as 25-30 instead, you should probably revise your builds, because your tanks will be poor, no offense. You can afford more defense and still deal a lot of damage as a tank.

For Point Four: Most Duelists are DPS. That damage does not surprise me from them. If I can do damage like that on my tank, why can't the dedicated damage dealer do damage like that too? They're far more squishy, by comparison. That damage number falls in line with a lot of other things, really, so no, it doesn't look broken. Test it against a 50 RES and come back with a screenshot of that, instead. That will tell you how much you actually need to worry about it.