[Shujin]

I like many of the things here but I think some of the things might be overtuning it a bit. You have stated that outside of invocations their damage potential is low, which is only half true. With CM they still hurt alot, its just about being able to pull them off.
So if we add the passive Synaptic Precison, which already lowers the chance to trigger evasion by a shit ton and another modifier of 50% together(so another part in the chain calculation) with a realistic chance of free casting with spell cadence and the abillity to cast mage basic spells (I assume the 50% modifer goes there to), I think its maybe too much. Even though I reaaaally love the idea of it turning you into a glass canon, as earth evokers I find quite unfitting as Evokers as they can become quite the doomwalls with one hit potential, I digress though.

One of the main flaws stated is how they lack crowd control and barely ever manage to pull off their skills or manage to play the kiting game (which I only partly agree with.) and yet the suggestion is half about Invocations that take even longer to pull off? How does that fix the issue? I love the idea of the spells but I think the issue would be better adressed by giving them tools to "quick cast", no? So maybe utility spells that are focused on being low momentum spells that either increase or decrease the space between you and the target and give you some breathing room?
I didn't put much thought into them and am on mobile so not really wanting to make a too big post, but to clarify what I mean would be stuff like this:

-MIGHTY PUSHUtility skill to gain some space to cast)
Wind Spell, 1M, range:1, 3-4 turn cooldown to prevent spamming.

Push your adjected target for 5+Rank tiles away.

-STONE COFFINTactical Crowd control, that can give you time to cast against certain enemies)
earth Spell, 3M, range:Rank-1 (min1)?, 5 turn cooldown

Capture the target in stones and hold them at bay, inflicting them with immobilize for 3 turns.

-FLAMING AURAA skill that helps you being a bit more defensive and reliably fight able against basic attackers. even when silenced and limited to base spells)
Fire Spell, 3M, enchantment.

Souround yourself with a flaming aura, dealing 10+Rank*5% fire damage on being hit.


Yada, Yada... I think that spells like that might come more in handy, than even longer invocations that you probably never use anyway cause everyone and their mother will chase you down when they see you chant one of those up.

[Kameron8]

You have stated that outside of invocations their damage potential is low, which is only half true. With CM they still hurt alot, its just about being able to pull them off.

This is an easy misconception to fall into. All things equal, using Charge Mind and then casting a spell will net you less damage than just casting that spell three times, which is the same momentum investment. The reason Charge Mind is still good, however, is because it can be used before an engagement has fully broken out (during the spacing phase, which I mentioned is usually one of their strengths), and because it's compatible with invocations.

So if we add the passive Synaptic Precison, which already lowers the chance to trigger evasion by a shit ton and another modifier of 50% together(so another part in the chain calculation) with a realistic chance of free casting with spell cadence and the abillity to cast mage basic spells (I assume the 50% modifer goes there to), I think its maybe too much. Even though I reaaaally love the idea of it turning you into a glass canon, as earth evokers I find quite unfitting as Evokers as they can become quite the doomwalls with one hit potential, I digress though.

I'm having trouble parsing your thoughts here. The chances of you being able to hit someone three times with basic attacks while running the suggested alternative to Pure Power is a pipe dream at best. Not to mention, you are by no means required to take the passive that strips all of your defenses away in this circumstance. An earth mage is plenty capable of being ran as a tank with a tank-based Main/Subclass.

One of the main flaws stated is how they lack crowd control and barely ever manage to pull off their skills or manage to play the kiting game (which I only partly agree with.) and yet the suggestion is half about Invocations that take even longer to pull off? How does that fix the issue? I love the idea of the spells but I think the issue would be better adressed by giving them tools to "quick cast", no?

Correct, but, I'm not sure you read my points very carefully. The lack of crowd control is a flaw I mentioned that seems very much intentional to the class. The identity presented to us based on the skills Evoker currently has is enormous spell damage at the detriment of most other attributes. I did not suggest powerful crowd control for a reason -- it doesn't seem to fit what the class is trying to be. Hexer has access to those controlling elements, and is extraordinarily well off for it.

Furthermore, the higher level invocations do not fix the difficulty Evokers have casting invocations in the first place. They add class flare. Being able to counteract invocations is an important part of keeping everyone from dying to Isenshi and Exgalfa, and the power of Invocations was quite clearly labeled as a strength of the class -- not a weakness. All of the other abilities (besides the Invocations) are meant to assist with the problems they have, while the Invocations are meant to be very niche options that flex class identity.

Yada, Yada... I think that spells like that might come more in handy, than even longer invocations that you probably never use anyway cause everyone and their mother will chase you down when they see you chant one of those up.

The criticism I have of your suggested abilities are that they aim to pad what I believe are intentionally lacking portions of the class. That's certainly a fast way to make them viable, but, it's an even quicker way to lose track of what Evokers are meant to be. The invocations are not trivial to cast, but nor are they entirely impossible. With a team to properly support you, it's feasible to become immune to -- or dispel -- the crowd controls as they come, and eventually get the abilities off. This becomes an interesting dynamic to consider in a fight, if a team took that approach.

If I had the game sense, time, and creativity to think up three more basic spells for each of the four elements in Evoker's tree, I would have. Unfortunately, that isn't the case, so I'm working with what I could think of.

[Shujin]

Oh yeah I am aware, of 3 times casting being usually better. Even though it goes through flat reductions three times. It still hurts though.

The worry I have mostly is that 300 virtual hit on top of it, makes it just too strong, combined with pure power. Sure it's really turning you in a glass Canon, but I fear the damage overall gets still so high that it won't really be fun to play against. 9 m one kill moves are just not fun. And I think that actually might be pretty possible at these damage levels.


I Read the part that it might have been intentional, I was just confused what exactly you were going for with the high level invocations in the context. If you had in mind to not change the way they are played, then my ideas are indeed contraproductive.

[Snake]

I have no productive argument about it, but I say I'm satisfied with the proposed changes to Evoker. Some of them may need a look at after they're implemented. But first we actually need them to be implemented to see. Running on wild assumptions will just make this never exist and this discussion to be prolonged ad infinitum.

[PantherPrincess]

I like a lot of what you proposed, the only thing that's coming to my mind is I think you should redo the offensive invocation spells. The reason being is as A rank offensive spells I'd expect something totally out of the box and something far more dangerous than elemental bursts at that point, a lot of those spells seem about B rank? or lower aside from their scaling. I.E. for the fire branch Blue Akashic Fire that would inflict a nasty burn status that cannot be removed by any means with any skills or items and lasts the whole match. Or an A rank invocation that would summon Earth Golems with massive HP pools and such that fight for you. Or a Black Hole spell that deals dark/null damage and pulls every enemy on the field into one spot for you. Or a huge explosion that does akashic damage. You get the gist I'm sure, these are just some random thoughts I'm throwing out. Other than that I like a lot of what you presented. +1