[Autumn]

These two spells recently introduced are really really strong, and even though they cost HP they can be abused to drastically change fights, I'd like their power to remain overall high because of the HP costs but I do think they could make do with some limitations.

Scarlet Twister is really REALLY strong, while I understand the cost behind the skill, when used too often in conjunction with a team it can be mighty destructive really fast, or even cinders (similar to old Orkam Drehen).

I think this spell should have a 3 round cooldown instead so that it can remain strong without being too overbearing.


Blood Spike is a lot less overbearing, it doesn't have a strong effect like an up to 12 tile pull and circle size, but its scaling is too much for stats so easy to get, I'd like to see it have less scaling than scarlet twister in proportion to the lesser HP cost, since sacrificing 5% HP for a scaling better than most invocations right now. For reference, Divine Shower costs 9m but scales 100% SWA 170% Light ATK and is technically the highest scaling invocation, while Blood Spike scales 100% SWA 115% Ice and Water ATK together, combined for essentially 230% elemental atk.

I think Blood Spike could make do with 100% SWA and 80% Ice and Water ATK, since these skills apply claret call so many times I still see them being very useful regardless of their scaling, also 80/80 scaling will still hit really hard.

[Snake]

Bloody Hell.

I kind of disagree in weakening Blood Spikes by that much without removing its 1 round cooldown. If the scaling must be reduced, then the cooldown should be removed. It costs HP, so spamming it should be dangerous to both your enemies and yourself, by default.

I agree that Scarlet Twister is kind of a game changer in PvP, and that needs a higher cooldown.That's hands down a little too unbearable right now since all you need to do is get hit for a map-wide pull ruining many other crucial gimmicks for survival on some classes, like Ranger's kiting hops, Duelist's sidecut disengages or Demon Hunter's winged serpent retreating.

[K Peculier]

Blood magic deserves to be strong but not this strong to end things so easily. I agree with Spoops that they need to have a longer cooldown so once again its more of a informed usage rather than use it because its good and 'you can'.

[GSM]

I point to a similar skill pair, Underworld Flame and Holy Spark.

Underworld Flame is another split damage spell from Hexer, but unlike almost all of them, it is a single target spell, scaling 100% SWA and 70% Dark/Fire ATK. It can also inflict Burn, a neglected and honestly forgotten status effect that no modern build even tries to inflict.

Holy Spark is a similar one from Priest, though an actual AoE with the same initial target range of both Scarlet Twister and Blood Spike. All it does is shoot with the same 100% SWA and 70% Light/Lightning ATK. That's it. Not even a status effect.

In comparison, Blood Spike is instantly a way better spell, with a staggering 115% split elemental scaling, and applies Claret Call twice without a check, instantly becoming a powerful Ghost tool.

Scarlet Twister gets even stronger with its effective range, also able to apply Claret Call twice, and PULLING enemies too, which means it's unable to be resisted as you're pulled from your position, possibly through cinders (since cinder Ghosts are now becoming extremely prevalent), and take a metric asston of free damage.

Please, for the love of god, make sure Scarlet Twister isn't the best spell in the game with its ridiculous scaling for a very minor drawback in a one turn cooldown and HP damage.

[Senna]

And people thought I was joking when I said Ghost was the highkey best class.

After a few individuals explaining these two skills to me and witnessing it first hand, I can safety say, they're too damn busted at the moment. I do understand that it cost health and that ghost passive basically increase how much health it'll subtract but the drawbacks are flat-out outweighed by the positives.

There is alot of dirt tactics that can be used with it (Like twister pulling the foes to the center close enough for a group Eclair Lacroix or even firetile drag around spam), I'm sure a few have already mention but in a sense, the range of the attacks, the scaling and what they do is far too much.

A GOOD EXAMPLE OF THIS IS THE DAMN TWISTER! THIS SHIT IS A SETTING SUN SIZE CYCLONE SPEAR WITH GOD'S LEVEL OF PULLING POWER--ALWAYS PUTTING THE VICTIMS IN THE CENTER. WHO THOUGHT THAT WAS A GOOD IDEA?!

Info and scaling pic in case someone haven't done it or seen them as yet.





Range they can reach up to. (This is the twister that PULLS people to the center. Credits for this shot goes to Balthie)




The scaling, the reach, even though it's like, 'I'll use my health for this', it's still, 'I'll use my health for this and hit you like a mini-truck and set you up for something big.'.

Rant aside, I'd suggest a cool-down, yeah, or just limit the total range it can reach and reduce the DOUBLE scaling to a more fair amount than 100+% in both element comparing to the other already existing dual element skills. They already have really good utility, no reason to make them more powerful than that they already are.

[Miller]

I feel like these changes are extremely fair.

Bloody Spikes at 80/80 elemental scaling will still also hit fairly hard, thanks to water and ice being usually present in the average duelist build on top of applying claret call fairly easily.

Not to mention the fact it can use weapons that are applicable for two handing as casting tools.

[PantherPrincess]

I'm not quite sure if lowering Bloody Spike to 80/80 is a good idea. With my current setup of 60 scaled skill and 50 scaled vit I hit squishy builds for about 90 ice/water magical damage at most. Idk that doesn't sound overbearing whatsoever to me its very similar to just about any split damage spell.


This wasn't even with evasion procced.

As for Scarlet Twister yes the pull can be really cheap I agree with that but you're at low HP to do something like that screenshot is showing so I'd keep that in mind when trying to nerf these skills. We don't want to utterly destroy them as they cost HP already and have a 1 round CD. There are spells with a lot more scaling/effects than both of those which brings up the fact that they are spells and silence does affect them. The only thing I would touch is lowering the range on Scarlet Twister a little. Their scaling is fine to me.

[Neus]

It's worth mentioning that it has to go through resistance/magic armor for each damage application as well.

[Ardratz]

I'm not quite sure if lowering Bloody Spike to 80/80 is a good idea. With my current setup of 60 scaled skill and 50 scaled vit I hit squishy builds for about 90 ice/water magical damage at most. Idk that doesn't sound overbearing whatsoever to me its very similar to just about any split damage spell.


This wasn't even with evasion procced.

I am going to counter this with my own test against an arena combatant using Blood Spike with 56 Scaled Skill and 50 Scaled Vit.




Considering I have less scaled skill then you and my test subject has far more res it should be doing less damage but in the end I am doing more damage. If this was up against your test subject it would have done about 30ish more damage total making the numbers more like 99 and 94 respectively, give or take. This guy isn't even built to use magic and furthermore this isn't even with his best weapon for that skill. I have to say that Blood Spike's scaling is incredibly high and could use toning down.



EDIT: Replaced luck with vit cause it was meant to be vit, whoop.

[PantherPrincess]

I'm not quite sure if lowering Bloody Spike to 80/80 is a good idea. With my current setup of 60 scaled skill and 50 scaled vit I hit squishy builds for about 90 ice/water magical damage at most. Idk that doesn't sound overbearing whatsoever to me its very similar to just about any split damage spell.


This wasn't even with evasion procced.

I am going to counter this with my own test against an arena combatant using Blood Spike with 56 Scaled Skill and 50 Scaled Luck.




Considering I have less scaled skill then you and my test subject has far more res it should be doing less damage but in the end I am doing more damage. If this was up against your test subject it would have done about 30ish more damage total making the numbers more like 99 and 94 respectively, give or take. This guy isn't even built to use magic and furthermore this isn't even with his best weapon for that skill. I have to say that Blood Spike's scaling is incredibly high and could use toning down.

I don't really understand why you mentioned luck but er okay?

Your character is level 60 of course its going to hit harder than mine I was level 45 and even then you practically did the same amount of damage as me the difference by small numbers. Also that's kind of the point of a spell thats able to be cast by swords or axes, you don't have to be a mage (nor do you really have to for a lot of builds that can do magical damage I.E. Monk). I (and everyone else) can do the same amount of damage using Black Static or Wretched Oil or Holy Spark. It's scaling is not as low as those spells because it does not cause any nasty effects (claret call is essential to ghost's whole being thus cannot even count because pretty much every skill applies CC) and it costs HP to use not FP which in a lot of cases can start putting your feet in the grave faster than your opponents, it is just a damage number of ice and water which have many in-game items that grant elemental resists to both. I can lower the damage on both spells on my elemental resist tank to literally 24 ice/water wind/water magical damage with a resist included.