[Balthie]

Guns have long been a rough part of balance, particularly multishots. They have an awful habit of being hardcountered by numerous gear picks and numerous class skills, making them a risky pick even at their best- thus, of course, I have a vested interest in them seeing a good place of balance. A nerf is not that, as it stands.

Having a personal interest in support tanks myself, perhaps my favourite of the aforementioned counters is mag shield- it's incredibly useful for your entire team, and pairs wonderfully with other hard counters like itself.
Unfortunately, a gear slot that makes oneself take damage for your team needs to be built for. You can't just use protect with no protective stats, for example- nor should you use magnetic shield without any crit evade.

I would very much like to see you consider and refute the points made by Trex, if possible. I can't escape the feeling that you wouldn't have been complaining about mag shield if you had.

[EenKogNeeto]

We're still in that fight. Maybe you should focus on that before adding to the balance fu thread.
-> What is Hard Dying

Yeah, I'm gonna pop in to say that shooting the other two people on your team actually nearly killed me when you weren't around them.
You killed your team by not having crit evade.
-> Hence this thread


Also these numbers are actually just incorrect.
->Brute took 205.

...Where is your crit evade against a gun with 80%~ crit?...
->Not a BK, Caster.

What are your classes...?
-> Evoker Boxer

Do you uhh, want some build or gear-up tips there
-> No, I'm happy with my build. It works fine.

Here goes atleast two items that may interest you, and that will make you return about 350 damage to any Quickdraw user.
-> But what's this have to do with fixing the balance of an outlier issue unrelated to quickdraw itself?

Have fun no longer crying about this. And please stop crying about this, it's getting annoying.
-> The only time I've been miffed in this whole thing is people instantly going 'Lol salt' over a very real balance complaint.

First of all, this set up requires you to actually crit and it's spread across multiple rounds. To put it simply, any decent amount of crit evade will basically neuter a good chunk of the damage.
-> Crit is not spread across multiple rounds in any way shape or form, As previously stated in this thread one person without crit evade is enough for your entire team to take 100 damage. Not everyone has crit evade in their builds.

Tanks with no crit evade should expect to be shot down by most basic hit builds. (Not to mention you're basically encouraging getting shot by this with a Magnetic Shield.)
-> Balancing around having to take something is exactly why On Guard and such were made innate. It's bad for balance to make something mandatory to not lose instantly. I equipped a magnetic shield because I knew I had physical DR to spare and my teammates probably didn't.

Ultimately I'm being told again and again to just play a BK. I don't see how people don't find that an issue.
I'm fine with me personally dying because I don't have crit evade, its a conscious decision I made. Hell I probably wouldn't even have made this thread if it weren't for the fact the guitar has 5 range aoe on its sound damage. If it were ONLY killing me then I wouldn't mind at all. - But I don't see a reason to target the guitar itself when it's not the issue. Nobody is complaining about the guitar being used normally.

[Snake]

It's because nobody goddamn cares about a cheap ass extra AoE that hits for no bigger number than ONLY a weapon's Power (not even SWA) and does PHYSICAL DAMAGE on top of it. Jesus Christ...

I'd first and foremost cry about Pinpoint Electro being unbearable for having literal infinite range and be always paired with a whooping -15% Electricity Resistance than this shit.

A big and easy summarize of literally everything we've told you over and over is pretty clear now:

[EenKogNeeto]

It's because nobody goddamn cares about a cheap ass extra AoE that hits for no bigger number than ONLY a weapon's Power (not even SWA) and does PHYSICAL DAMAGE on top of it. Jesus Christ...
-> It is physical damage that ignores armor to be fair. And it's not a cheap ass dinky AOE if its doing 100 bonus damage to the entire team minimum.

I'd first and foremost cry about Pinpoint Electro being unbearable for having literal infinite range and be always paired with a whooping -15% Electricity Resistance than this shit.
-> Funny because I was gonna mention in the salt part about how it's not like I was taking a stab at pinpoint electro which actually gets me salty.

A big and easy summarize of literally everything we've told you over and over is pretty clear now:
-> Yes yes, play BK, I heard you the first time. Get gud and make all builds adhere to the current crit-evade meta

[WaifuApple]

This just looks like a salt thread. You were asked if you could look at and refute someone's point, and you completely ignored it twice. This is a silly thread and you seem to be set in your ways, rather than listening to good points. Making the argument you're being told to play BK when, of course, you don't need to do so to get a decent amount of crit evade, even.

Leave this to Dev to decide at this point, before you derail the whole thing yourself by just being dumb and pretending you've done your research.

[EenKogNeeto]

This just looks like a salt thread. You were asked if you could look at and refute someone's point, and you completely ignored it twice.
-> The only point people have given is 'But you can counter it' and most of them are ignoring the point of the thread entirely in the process thinking that its a thread about 'how do you counter this' - The other half is going 'Just build crit evade' or 'Just hardcounter it with meta' People seem to get very worked up any time anything gets suggested for a nerf, even when its something this obscure as the only on-crit weapon in the game that applies to main-hand attacksI even did testing because I thought that Abaniko did too, but no. Its just guitar as far as I've been able to prove. I don't want to imagine the headache if I ever bother to make a thread about thunderhooves being unbalanced and having to explain for the umpteenth time that throwing a dispel rock at them doesn't count as a weakness.

Leave this to Dev to decide at this point
-> Yeah probably the best idea since nothings really been contributed of worth in the last page or so.

Edit: Edited the main post with the results of that testing since its relevant.

[Lolzytripd]

This just looks like a salt thread. You were asked if you could look at and refute someone's point, and you completely ignored it twice.
-> The only point people have given is 'But you can counter it' and most of them are ignoring the point of the thread entirely in the process thinking that its a thread about 'how do you counter this' - The other half is going 'Just build crit evade' or 'Just hardcounter it with meta' People seem to get very worked up any time anything gets suggested for a nerf, even when its something this obscure as the only on-crit weapon in the game that applies to main-hand attacksI even did testing because I thought that Abaniko did too, but no. Its just guitar as far as I've been able to prove. I don't want to imagine the headache if I ever bother to make a thread about thunderhooves being unbalanced and having to explain for the umpteenth time that throwing a dispel rock at them doesn't count as a weakness.

Leave this to Dev to decide at this point
-> Yeah probably the best idea since nothings really been contributed of worth in the last page or so.

Edit: Edited the main post with the results of that testing since its relevant.

Deadly smile called, it said you're wrong about guitar being the only on crit effect. (not the same exact thing, but it works with some REALLY odd things that you might not expect....like naga tail smacks)

[EenKogNeeto]

Deadly smile called, it said you're wrong about guitar being the only on crit effect. (not the same exact thing, but it works with some REALLY odd things that you might not expect....like naga tail smacks)

Added that to the list, one of the weapons I didn't bother to test.
If anyone else wants to test something these are the unknowns currently.

Bow of Green Forest
Hikage and Tsuikage
Abberation Spear
Shizumare
Voidcut
Golgorth
Maniac Slasher
Rose Whip

[WaifuApple]

I'm going to echo the words of Balthie: Please read and refute the words by Trex. You have glossed over that post and it has been more compelling - and yet you've just kind of

...not even acknowleged it.
If you still want to believe this should be nerfed, show us why they're wrong and you're right.

[EenKogNeeto]

I'm going to echo the words of Balthie: Please read and refute the words by Trex. You have glossed over that post and it has been more compelling - and yet you've just kind of

...not even acknowleged it.
If you still want to believe this should be nerfed, show us why they're wrong and you're right.

I don't know what you want to be refuted. They agreed it was probably OP in PVE which is obvious.
Their points on PVP were in-depth, but also focused on Quickdraw itself rather than really this specific interaction with the guitar. And would be better ported to a thread talking about buffing QD. I'm not here to change the meta drastically by targeting Desperado or anything. I'm here talking about a very limited interaction that shouldn't exist due to balance concerns from massive amounts of unresistable damage.

Suggesting counters is irrelevant, I'm not asking how to counter it. I'm talking about how it's unbalanced if NOT countered specifically by any one member of the enemy team (Such as actually following your characters IC instead of stacking crit evade like the meta demands)

Guitar only being used because it interacts with guns as an offhand weapon is a silly reason to say it shouldn't be changed. Once it loses this interaction someone can make a post about buffing it if they want. It's perfectly fine on its OWN, I don't complain when someone jumps into the team and shreds a guitar on us with Circle swing or whatever the axe special attack is called. The issue is the ABNORMAL interaction with guns. Unless every weapon on that list up there turns out to proc it too, it's one of two weapons that do work fully on offhand.