[MegaBlues]

Disclaimer: I'm not too sure where this should go, so it's going here. Move if needed!

So, today, apparently, a Guard trailed a character into Law's End. The lawless place. Where people go to hide from the law, you know.

This Guard then got into a fight, and called for help. Obviously, none of the denizens would be willing to run and call for help. Partially because Oniga is halfway across the desert, and partially because people who live there would want to stay away from law enforcement. Not to mention that the suspect would have been chased through a desert sandstorm.

So, how did they call for help? Ding ding, Laplace. This is a direct quote from Skype, from a GM.

"from what i have, they have a laplaceNET channel exclusive to them to call for it, though they can't go and do it in a way that breaks something on the Server Rules"

So, the Guards are allowed to get help from anywhere with a laplaceNET connection (Which, as far as I know, is everywhere), and then arrive on the scene?

The direct question, to Dev. Is this allowed? Do they have the power to walkie-talkie each other and pop out of the woodwork?

For anyone else who feels a need to reply to this, please keep your posts limited to elaboration of the events in question. Preferably without calling others out.

EDIT: People don't go where the criminals are to hide from the criminals. Silly me.

[Rendar]

For reference on 'why guards are in Law's End'.

Not trying to be mean, but this needs to be clarified because the Guards have never gone to Laws End to do business before but now they do.

[Sarinpa1]

MegaBlues » Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:19 am[/url]"]
For anyone else who feels a need to reply to this, please keep your posts limited to elaboration of the events in question. Preferably without calling others out.

Yolo.

Because making a separate thread for this would be pretty poor.
Guard playing hunters and chasing someone across the continent? No, wait, trailing. Not even chasing. Into a lawless town where half the people HATE them.
So I too, want to ask.

Since travelling inbetween towns is excusable by presence of guards everywhere, portal system, etc and therefore backup is a legitimate thing to happen within minutes, how did the guards manage to get to Laws End? Which is across the whole continent. Do they have access to those flying birds or something?

[Chaos]

Okay, time to put down what, exactly, went down on this side of the fence:

1. I get the following line:

[21:01:01] Makido, The Butler of the Wiki Queen: Chaos
[21:01:37] Makido, The Butler of the Wiki Queen: If we chased a criminal into Law's End...Are we allowed to call for back up and keep pursuing them?

2. From what it looks like, they were in hot pursuit and decided to call in for backup just before they went in for the criminal; so I affirmed it

3. General shit about it rises, with Sawrock getting swarmed in his own home

4. Have people complain about Guards in Law's End

5. Find out the Guard that pursued actually made the call smack dab in the middle of Law's End (In one of its houses, more specifically)

6. I'm cleaning things up


So yes, there -was- a problem with someone calling backup right in one of the houses. We apologize for that, and the player in question has been reprimanded. No, I'm not firing them for it; it's their first mistake, and I did mess up with assuming based off the question.

However, I have no reason to believe that Law's End is an invisible criminal haven; why would Ashe and Hugo, of all people, march over there in knowledge that it's where criminals congregate if it was supposedly invisible? How many Guard characters went there off their shifts? It's not an invisible, unknown place when people (see: some NPCs and a lot of PCs) apparently know about it. When a Guard apparently chases someone all the way there, the idea becomes flat-out impossible. (If anyone has evidence that the Guard didn't actually chase them there, please inform me and I'll straighten it out)

The 'LaplaceNET Channel' has been there from the start, as a way for Guards to signal for backup in reasonable areas. The thing about it is that Guards are expected to not use it to cause bullshit nor in scenarios that would go against the Server Rules. This is one of those cases, which I've already mentioned above. (Though on the other hand, apparently, the Guards that were there did jack shit beyond just standing around; Trigonum did the work from what I hear)

For the record, IC-wise, Law's End is a place where Guards are told not to go for certain/very good reasons. We're not stopping people from having their characters go there if that's how they would roll, but they will be ICly dealt with appropriately for their actions.

P.S. I was also wrong in assuming that a Guard wouldn't get shot or something there, my bad. Though I'm pretty sure whoever lead them in will also be on the boiler plate.

[Tsundere]

YEAH EAT IT GUARD FORCE TRIGONUM ROOLZ U DROOL

(sorry i had to do that)

[Lolzytripd]

my two cents, the npc's of laws end are the bandits of the bandit dens, dev even talked about putting bandit nodes in laws end in the alleys, any guard, that enters laws end, would be attacked by a 4xcrazy dungeon amount of scaled bandits realistically speaking.

Also I petition a laplace jammer should exist in oniga's deserts. Laplace should not be a go to excuse in laws end.

Ashe and Co are church members, not guards, they are not the law, they are empowered respected individuals of an organization that enforces church law, and is allowed to do so by most governments. They are also more powerful than guards and the criminal underworld likely is full of rumors about what ashe's sword can do to people, which explains why no one in laws end was willing to talk to her.

[catabur]

Lolzytripd » Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:36 am[/url]"]4xcrazy dungeon amount of scaled bandits realistically speaking.

That's not realistic, that's a god damn army full of bandits waiting to jump a guard that probably entered there to break down a weapon or some type of shirt infused with the heart of a demon with Lawrence (oh, wait, sorry, Qawrence or whatever). And even if they were for a criminal, what purpose would a bunch of bandits want with a guard who isn't even hire to do anything to them?

When we went there, we had no thoughts about going around town and arresting everyone else; we had a single purpose, to arrest a specific criminal who has been a pain in the Empire's side for some time. Anything else would've deviated too much from our goal and get us more likely to get killed than just a few paranoid people freaking out that non-uniformed guards came to a specific place that was once destroyed by the town's denizens.
(At least, I'm pretty sure it used to be the DV's headquarters.)

I mean, if I was a criminal that lived there, I'd rather just stay away from the guards and let them take some guy I probably don't even know. Better them than me, after all.

Lolzytripd » Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:36 am[/url]"]Also I petition a laplace jammer should exist in oniga's deserts. Laplace should not be a go to excuse in laws end.

I'm not too sure about this one. What is laplace made of that can be blocked? Magic lava-blood? What could they make that wouldn't look suspicious to everyone else? Don't some criminals use laplace, too?

Lolzytripd » Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:36 am[/url]"]Ashe and Co are church members, not guards, they are not the law, they are empowered respected individuals of an organization that enforces church law, and is allowed to do so by most governments. They are also more powerful than guards and the criminal underworld likely is full of rumors about what ashe's sword can do to people, which explains why no one in laws end was willing to talk to her.

Let's ignore the whole "fighting Ashe" thing that you can do, because I actually haven't gotten up to that point of the story. Don't you think that THE REINCARNATION OF MERCALA'S SISTER, HEAD OF THE CHURCH KNIGHTS, is KIND OF more worrying to a town that's about staying hidden than a few guards who only want to take away 1-2 criminals? Hell, that's as if a general decided to visit some crime-ridden slums as opposed to a few police officers.

Sorry if you feel as though I was specifically attacking you or that I came off as a bit aggressive in this post, your post was just conveniently close enough. And it's about 2:30 in the morning, so who knows where my brain is at.

Anyways, some of the things are more of a wee bit less important since people travel from Cellsvich to Dormeho (with Sigrogana being bigger than Gold) all the time. And it isn't like the guards are going to start patrolling Law's End ever so often. This scenario was a one-time thing. And, yeah, I'm not Chaos or anything like that, so my view isn't the best to go to for any sort of clarification, but I felt that I could at least add my own personal view on this whole shebang.

[Lolzytripd]

Oh I agree with your opinion completely, its just lorewise oniga is akin to crime ridden towns of history, many of witch are death sentences to men of uniform.

I feel that ashe appears as a person one does not wish to **** with.


a guard however, would be more fair game, a guard that pulled out a laplace pda in laws end, heck any person pulling one out, would likely to be mugged by a passerby or attacked by a gang.
.
I know laws end looks like a ghost town, but its supposed to be the seediest place in the world, the black market, ect. think any pirate stronghold of the pirates of caribean series, ect. the place is lorewise swarming with criminals.


Guards should group up OUTSIDE laws end, then attempt to raid the town for their target as a group, because if they went in alone, they would be zerged by the criminals.


Real life scenario, does a cop go into the most crime ridden part of town by himself, even if just for business, in his common uniform >no> if at all out of uniform, while casually letting anyone who knows its a guard know they are just there on business or bribe them to not rat them out to crimelords/ larger groups of gangs.


Edit: I don't want any omittals or anything, I just want ground rules set for the next time.

[Ranylyn]

Chaos » Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:06 am[/url]"]However, I have no reason to believe that Law's End is an invisible criminal haven; why would Ashe and Hugo, of all people, march over there in knowledge that it's where criminals congregate if it was supposedly invisible? How many Guard characters went there off their shifts? It's not an invisible, unknown place when people (see: some NPCs and a lot of PCs) apparently know about it. When a Guard apparently chases someone all the way there, the idea becomes flat-out impossible. (If anyone has evidence that the Guard didn't actually chase them there, please inform me and I'll straighten it out)

Okay, not to be a shit disturber, but I really need to draw attention to this:

"How many Guard characters went there off their shifts? It's not an invisible, unknown place when people (see: some NPCs and a lot of PCs) apparently know about it."

Yes, how many law-enforcers just CASUALLY WENT ACROSS THE DESERT in their free time to go to a place THEY KNOW OF where people might be hiding from them, possibly able to identify them, and likely more than willing to gank them in eighteen thousand eight hundred and ninety-two ways before breakfast? Clearly most of them, if the guard roster is so small, since the others all died! Law's End is clearly a place avoided by most besides those with business or to whom the lawlessness is an appeal. This much should be blatantly obvious, painfully so.

I'm sorry, but that really is kind of a flimsy BS excuse. Just saying. I'm dissapointed that this incident is being defended in any way, shape, or form. This is, in it's most pure form, ignoring lore for metagaming purposes. Especially so when you consider Law's End supposedly has a sense of community; you screw with the and you get shanked, so you're inclined to behave while you're there. Others really wouldn't just stand by while outside law enforcement officials were trying to bring someone in. If I was an asshole, I would demand that th guard in question be declared dead and unable to return, since realistically, they would not have lasted long enough to call for backup. But I'm not an asshole, so I'm simply posting this argument as to why this whole thing is a giant fustercluck.

If the law COULD handle Law's End, it would have done so already! But it can't. End of story.

[Chaos]

Ranylyn » Thu Jan 22, 2015 6:56 am[/url]"]Okay, not to be a shit disturber, but I really need to draw attention to this:

(Insert rest of topic here)

When there's at least three services only found in Law's End (Despite one of them being accessible through a Donation Item), it's fair to assume that there would be reason for someone playing a Guard to go there. The character themselves? Could be for those reasons. Could be because he had either a contact or friends there. Could be because they serve their favorite brand of alcohol.

Moreover, you have to also account for the Guards that were aware of and/or have visited Law's End before they became a Guard. The Guard who entered Law's End here wasn't unfamiliar with it beforehand, so it wasn't like they didn't have a clue. They also did not have their badge on display (which was never pulled out until backup arrived), and perhaps combined with being new to the Guard, means there would likely be little attention until he showed his badge. (Or alternatively, he knew enough people there to be given the benefit of the doubt)

Moreover is that the community does run off of, 'don't get on someone's nerves and you'll be fine'. The Empire won't send forces in because of how stupidly dangerous the feat is, but individuals that aren't in 'uniform' are still plausible to get in, even if it will involve one to a few people watching them out of fear/curiosity or something similar.

Okay, so Makido's question (quoted in the last post I made in this topic) was apparently complete bullshit.

The trailing Guard knew about Law's End before they joined the Guard; it wasn't impossible at all to trail the target there. Said guard was in the Bar when the fight broke out. They proceeded to try for backup while keeping his activity and his badge hidden. From there, he didn't reveal himself until backup arrived.

That makes the scenario more believable to me. The backup call still isn't justified.