[Kameron8]

I believe Frostbite should return to doing full damage per tile when pushing or pulling someone through them, and that the current damage division should only apply to Cinders. As someone who used a whole lot of Frostbite, you can fully expect both bias and some degree of knowledge on the state of it.

To explain why I believe this, here is a list of the various traits of Cinders, versus Ice Sheets:

Cinders:

1. Deals damage passively, without any further interaction required.
   
2. Never destroyed by triggering tile damage.
   
3. Has the added benefit of dealing damage at the start of a round.
   
4. Damage is reduced by Flamewalk.
   
5. Dissuades movement by causing full damage per tile if traversed.
   

Ice Sheets:

1. Does no damage unless the Frostbite status is applied.
   
2. Destroys Ice Sheets upon stepping on them.
   
3. Does nothing to individuals starting the round on top of Ice Sheets.
   
4. Damage is not reduced by Flamewalk.
   
5. Dissuades movement by costing 2 tiles per movement, and dealing full damage per tile, if traversed.
   

Because most class combinations possess an external form of movement that allows them to disregard Ice Sheets, the impact of the movement reduction they were created for is severely hindered. Coupled with the fact that using Ice Sheets for damage requires the application of Frostbite (which is often very difficult and for a brief duration, outside of some skills), there are very few scenarios where Cinders wouldn't be far more preferable.

The previous go-to strategy, and the cause of so much heartache on the forum, was to slap down a bunch of Cinders and push/pull people through it over and over again. This formula does not work for Frostbite. The simple act of inflicting the status effect limits class and item choice severely, and often times comes with an infliction chance that can be resisted. Once that's sorted, pulling someone through Ice Sheets destroys them -- making the subsequent push do very little. The status itself can be purged or waited out, and Spiked Treads negates a large portion of the strategy to begin with.

Overall, it's just more effort than it's worth to try and use Frostbite to great effect. I'd like to see the penalty removed for pushing people through them, because it doesn't share much with its fiery brethren once you get passed a surface level.

[Fern]

I agree in that Frostbite doesn't feel worth the set-up anymore. Admittedly I have been feeling like cinders were the only field tile effects that deservee the division effect, but it's probably easier said than done to make them the only ones affected by it, not to mention that it might look very inconsistent after all.

Frostbite could ignore the reduced damage effect and regain its appeal.

[Autumn]

I'll agree in that Frostbite unlike Cinders was a lot more fair since it required heavy amounts of set up, I'd like to see it return to being as strong as it was, it gave Ice mages a lot of their damage and some of their identity, among slows and freezes.

[Shujin]

3. Does nothing to individuals starting the round on top of Ice Sheets.

If I remember correctly, dev wanted to add a evade malus or something while standing on enemy ice tiles? I thought something along the lines would be a nice as ice tiles are ignored 95% of the time anyway.


But sure, Forstbite/Ice tiles have always been inferior for the mentioned reasons over their firey counterparts and the set up is a lot harder, not to mention the frostbite level generally being low outside of intensify cold.

[Lolzytripd]

Okay devils advocat but I've had frostbite setups that could roll out a good thousand ice damage in the past with Arbalest/ evoker shenanigans (Note does not have to be multiclassed by one person)

Ice arrow+ pulling shot creates an ice tile as they pull a target, and if there were pre existing ice tiles it will double slap frostbite damage

Frostbite is physical ice damage and the invocation drops a nasty weakness ontop, arbalest's buster cannon only amplifies that.

The end result was an pulling shot that dealt a good 100+ ice damage a tile and did 10 tiles of damage and was quite easily repeatable after the setup

I do however feel this damage was justified because it required 3 rounds setup solo and 2 with a partner.

[Senna]

But the thing about that devil advocate, you can do the same with fire tiles and do even more damage with little set up lol. One turn to cover a good amount of field in fire comparing to two - three turns to get ice around the field, then to use one of the few abilities that applies frostbite but someone is also able to lolsilence you during it and mess up the combo. If we're talking about the past, people were able to 100 to 0 people with fire tiles during the same about of turns it'll take to set up front bite. So comparing, it's really not that special, I do agree with the others, it should only affect fire tiles. Sometimes I kinda wish ice tiles did more than just decrease movements to make them a little more useful.

[Lolzytripd]

I feel fires a little different in a way since there 's more counter play to fire tiles than ice tiles, you spot someone setting up a ton of flame tiles and you could be packing a red letter in your item belt to swap to. Ice builds have always had ways to negate resists.



I still feel Frostbite should get its damage back due to the higher cost of setup however.

[Senna]

Red letter doesn't exactly stop that if the person is serious about their fire tiles because there is a certain glove that gives the finger to red letter users and watch as they do 200 to 300 damage to themselves. And the only ice build that can do that is wasting 9 momentum and a risk of silence (Only to look like a fool when you waste all that fp for nothing) or running Verg with winter bite. If you do that you 100% need a second person to do that much damage to a SINGLE target. If its a two on two l, chances are, you both won't get the opportunity unless the two have no idea what they're doing.

[Snake]

Frostbite needs to apply full damage, or maybe just not consume the Ice Sheet to do damage if you walk over them while suffering from the status effect.

[Autumn]

I think a good argument to be had here on this is that Firebird's feather tiles are expendable so they end up dealing full damage, ice tiles are pretty much the same way and you need to apply the debuff to begin with (Passing a status infliction check with either 10/15 LV Frostbite, or 50 with Intensify Cold, or 30 with a very specific youkai ability)

I see no reason that feathers exist the way they are but frostbitten targets have to have the damage split when pushed across ice tiles.