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Opinion on the current state of SL2 as a RP game
#1
Hello, it's me. Fern. I'm someone that has played Sigrogana Legend 2 (SL2 for short) for like... 7 years now, give or take, very actively until recent times where my activity has dropped some. Somewhere around that... I was around when Double Dao + Claret Call was considered broken, haha.

So you might be wondering where I'm going with this thread. I'll be upfront and say that I haven't really taken the time to format it in a much professional manner, so I apologize for that. But I have noticed several concerns that I share to an extent, about the current state of SL2. I don't mean this strictly in the balance department, or the PVE area, or PVP... I mean this generally, going off what I've seen, experienced and came to conclusion out of my own accord.

I merely want to voice my opinion on the matter and find out how many other people want to speak their feelings about it as well. There isn't a guaranteed chance that I'll respond to every post, or any, but I wanted to put this somewhere out there.

I think that Sigrogana Legend 2 has been growing very, very stale overtime. Maybe a bit of hyperbole in my statement, but that's how I feel about it.
 
Of course, I won't just say "it's stale" and then not explain why. Currently, it feels like this is the standard to-do for playing SL2 after you're done sorting out your character's necessary stuff:
 
-Try to find engaging RP (can be pretty hard more often than you'd think I'd say)
-Go to an event, run by a player or Event Staff
-Test builds or fight OOCly for some fun (or ICly if you happen to stumble upon the opportunity and feel like it)

You might have noticed that I've not really mentioned "do dungeons, look for materials, look for more equipment" or something along the line in that list. It's because I think most people just seem to be content with wrapping up their character's build and then not trying to get anything else. After all, if you've got what you've needed and you don't plan on opening up a big project (I.E, adventurer guild, trading company, district RP hub...) then why would you ever have to go to a dungeon again? What do you need Murai for if you don't have a need for more items? You could use it for repairing weapons and healing up your character in in the Inn if you're the type to PVP a lot (like me!) I guess.
 
Obviously, this can change when there's updates that involve rolling out new stuff you'd want to get your hands on. New items, new resources, what have you. Or if you're a new player! New players like to toy around with stuff from what I've seen, but after a while people can run out of things to do in the game. While I wouldn't imagine a video game to ALWAYS have something to do, I feel it's a bit too easy to run out of things to carry out in SL2 particularly.

I mentioned earlier that finding engaging RP can be harder than you'd expect. I'll get to that.
 
Finding roleplay or making things progress on that front, tends to be difficult, because a significant amount of the community tends to be OOC or mainly reactive.
 
Beginning with the OOC part, you might be thinking... "but Fern you're OOC at times too." And you would be right! I am. I used to be very, very active on the roleplay front but now I'm not so active... I still do it on occasion, though, even if it sometimes may happen in a place you may not easily see it (I.E isolated game area, such as Karaten, the Cellsvich forest, player houses, etc.) And I do think I sometimes make an effort to muster motivation and head out there in the more public areas like I used to.

I don't think people should be forbidden from being OOC. Sometimes, people just want to do the gamey part of the game. Sometimes, they just want to chill with their friends in some place. Sometimes, people just want to screw around with character builds in OOC PVP, so on and so on.
 
But for a while, there has been such a thing called the "OOC Corner" by the community. It's a particular spot in the Badlands Arena where people who are OOC gather to socialize or mess around in fights. This one in particular:

[Image: jyk3L40.png]
 
I stopped by real quick to make a screenshot while writing this thread. I do hang out there occasionally, that's undeniable. I think the OOC Corner is a thing because:

-People from any social circle can meet in this easily publically accesible area, no matter what ""clique"" or group they're from. It's easy to start community interaction in this place, even if it's usually OOC.
-It has an Inn and a Blacksmith right next to each other. That's a godsend to anyone wanting to test builds with other people. And guess how many people like fighting? A lot. Guess how many people group up in the OOC Corner? Usually a good bunch, sometimes a few, sometimes a massive amount and other times no one at all!
-Humans are social creatures. We do like having or making friends. Usually...
 
Regarding the 'reactive' part, a lot of the community seems to prefer being approached rather than beginning the approach themselves. There is a big slew of different reasons for why people can feel this way, and it varies from person to person. From what I have seen and experienced even while I was very active on the RP front, there is not much of an incentive to create or lure in others for roleplay. There are some people out there that like to create things for people to gather in, but as far as I have seen and know, they're not the majority of the community.
 
I would like to note that I'm not trying to throw shade on shy people either. I understand that people have different personalities and not everyone is comfortable with being an extrovert ball of joy. It is perfectly okay to be your own person. I do think there's a way this one could be perhaps slightly alleviated without the need to force people to create roleplay, but I'll get to that later down this post.
 
Moving onto a different point of interest, relevant to what I was mentioning earlier!
 
Player motivation across the community seems to be fairly low, as of late.
 
I will make a quick note that, from all the time I've played SL2, I think that this is one of those things that come and go with the community. There's time periods where SL2 is very, very active... and then there's time periods where it feels like it's dead in a lot of places. And I don't just mean specific days, I mean literal months worth of time in some cases. Frankly I'd argue that this is a thing that happens with any game on occasion, but with SL2 in particular it feels more noticeable when people don't just want to bother with it. I know I sometimes have that phase myself, I don't think it's TOO often on my end but I do have it sometimes. (Shout out to the friends I've made in the game that help me keep my spirits up!)
 
Currently it feels, from my perspective, that the game has entered a phase where it feels much, much more dead than alive. Slight exaggeration but I do really think it's a thing at the moment. It has felt this way for about... 2 months nearly, give or take.  I'm not entirely sure how many people agree or disagree with me, merely just saying but...

It feels like there's very little interest in making things better, mainly from the community.

I'm not trying to say that people are apathetic, heartless monsters or anything like that. But I've frequently seen and heard people go, "well it's a hopeless case and I doubt things will improve anytime soon so why should I bother caring?"
 
And I honestly can't blame you for not caring. It's generally not your responsibility to try and force changes in a community. Heck, it's not MY responsibility to try and reach out in the forums like this and I know it, but I felt like doing it anyway. I wouldn't expect you or anyone else to magically do something about it, this thread isn't particularly meant to do that. It's a voice of opinion, nothing more nothing less.
 
Why are you trying to bring all of this up now of all times, if it's been an issue for a while?

I feel as if it has been getting worse and I do feel love for SL2 because it has unironically helped me grow as a person. I've met very fantastic people in it, and I've had equally fantastic experiences in it. It would sadden me to see it be left to rot, if the gist of things I mentioned are indeed a popular opinion and they manage to get worse. Like I said, I wanted to put something out there to see if anyone felt the same or very much opposed to how I felt on the matter. Or if anyone felt similar but not entirely - that sort of thing.
 
I could be wrong in some things, or I could be wrong entirely. I'd hope to be wrong, personally, but either way I wrote down my general concerns and I didn't feel like I wanted to stay quiet.
 
You mentioned something about an idea for slightly alleviating the roleplay problem, what do you have in mind?
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know, most events are currently private, rather than public. I don't want to burden the Event Staff, but I'd like to hear (if they are willing) their opinion on the idea of creating more public events people can partake in. It won't solve the problem in its entirety and I don't expect anything to 100% fix it, but I think it would promote the idea of people gathering up and socializing with new faces more often, and in turn promote a more entertaining environment for the game. I'm no problem solver magician, but it's an idea I want to throw out there.
 
Final words
 
I will be blunt and say I don't much expect this to be of use, nor do I expect anyone to add to this (people aren't obligated to post, of course) but if you have some thoughts on the matter you want to share, then I say that you are more than welcome to express your opinions in this thread. I don't have a TL;DR for everything I wrote, and I honestly don't want to give it one I feel!
 
If you read what I said, I just want to say thank you for listening to me, whether I am right or wrong.
[Image: Fern22.gif]
[Image: unknown.png]
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#2
I don't have a ton to add, but I wanted to post because this resonates very solidly. I try to be as genuine as possible and face whatever issues hit the game head-on even if I don't really mind the mood very well when I do so just because I feel like that's what I can do- and that someone should talk about these sorts of things outright. I'm not really super well articulated when I just let my mouth flow like that though and I'm definitely in the category of 'somewhat apathetic' that you mentioned, since I really don't think I have the energy to drop that much time and effort into fixing these sorts of things.

Aside from some cool big events run by eventmins and GMS(Black Falcon's stuff comes to mind), SL2 feels very slice of lifey. And I feel like it's really easy to lose drive with that sort of thing. Fundamentally, not a ton changes in the game, and while that's not a bad thing, it definitely pushes RP into certain directions.

I don't know how much I agree with more public RP being the way to solve this sort of thing. It gets more people to encounter each other, but it's also not possible to get particularly good interaction in the middle of forty people at a festival or something like that. It's cool and it has its niche, and we definitely need them, but I imagine most people of the game have just sort of adjusted more gradually to planning things out before hand, since you don't have to worry about things getting disrupted with memes. An all too common happening in public events.

That said I don't really disagree in any way; just that I hope something more impactful to the world could take the stage sometime soon. Something that affects the NPCs that have had the same dialogue for years, for example. But that's just my hopes.

Thank you for your hard work on this post and for supporting the community as always, Fern.
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#3
I think that people are mostly reactive because not much people just go up to random people on streets and be like 'hi dood whats up lets hang out'. But yeah its not like theres another way to get to know people in SL2, we dont have video games or such in there, best people can bunch over is beating monsters, or maybe getting a job and getting to know their coworkers
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#4
Since my opinion on things as an eventmin, and opinion of things on a player can vary sometimes, I'm going to start by offering my thoughts as a player:

- Truth be told, I agree with the sentiment that all those festivals have been... honestly much better for those who already have their groups. There have been points where I've seen an upcoming event like that and dreaded it... because when you put things on that scale, it pushes away these shy, reactionary people, more. Why? Because, to be honest... as one of them, it can be overload. There is so much to follow, so many people to keep track of and when you try to reach out, get some RP your way... it can feel as if people are passing you by.

It's disheartening, really. It makes, for some people, the idea of such events... kind of a nightmare. Makes them seem infinitely less worth attending. Now I can't really put the blame on anyone here - big crowds make it all the more likely for people to slip under the cracks. But it's the people we want to get more involved who end up slipping under the cracks.

I'd want to see more members of the community with their established groups and everyone... perhaps see someone who might be struggling to get attention, or being quiet... reach out, you know? Just take a shy person and string them along with you. It'd make their day, considering how much effort it must have took them to even feel the confidence to attend those things.

(As a side note, what I really have not been liking as of recent is how at times I'll see members of the community beating down at reactionary RPers for being just that, without really caring for the reason. I think that's... in a way making it worse, being put down for the way you are. Not naming names, but to anyone who's done that before, please just be more mindful.)

---

Ever since I've been playing this game, these waves of on and off interest have been there. People constantly exploring all options like they want out of this. And to be honest, many are still considering it. From the quality of RP in public areas, to the lack of ability to make an impact in the world, to the state of the game mechanically - all have been reasons at some point for people. It's an ingrained mindset that it isn't worth the effort, and that doing nothing is somehow better than trying to voice yourself and do something. And it's something that's hard to change in people. I've been told plenty of times that it's probably not even worth trying.

But I want to see something people can be happy with, and that means having to make your voice heard as many times as you can until the people you need to reach start listening.

---

As an eventmin, I'd like to stress... public events are hard, even if we think we're ready for them. They're not a one person act, and I think we need more people from the community willing to step up beside us and, well... help create those kinds of events based on what people want. I, personally... am not omnipresent, and I can't ever guarantee on my own that I am making something the community actually wants. Which I'd like to alleviate by working more with the rest of the community, bringing something to the world that can make an impact, because not even us eventmins can do it alone. Not without pre-existing player influence. Something you can be a part of if you wish - something that matters. I'm not the biggest fan of the falcon's operatings as of recently... but more groups like that. More things run by the players to shift world dynamic, that we can help with... it'd probably spice things up a little bit.

This is less coherent thought, and more just me rambling out my opinions, though. Just what felt appropriate to say.
[Image: Nihilus%2C_the_Abyssal_Flame.gif]
Ending 145: Disappointed in Humanity
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#5
I've had a pretty good time in SL2 since I returned about 2 years ago, primarily due to a change that was brought on through Discord. With groups I've become associated with, most tend to have an #activity channel where they post "This character is hanging out in this part of the group location." This is my primary form of finding RP nowadays and I think this system could be implemented more officially in the game. A lot of bars/restaurants use the Looking For Group feature to advertise that they're open for business (which I also love using) but I'm sure there's a system that could reflect more individual 'activities' to draw people to a location to RP. There's some awesome locations in the world that could be really fun to RP at that don't get the attention they deserve: Law's End, Casino in Oniga, etc.

I've had a good time in SL2 recently, it's been good to me so far. I go out to engage with strangers as much as I can and the eventmins were my number 1 request for ages, the state of the events have felt fantastic to me as I've participated in some private and some public. The private ones were created by others and ran by the eventmins which I hope to create a private one soon, as well. I believe RP is about the effort put in by the players and I've been blown away by the work from the eventmins, personally. Mostly just wanted to say this in case any of them have a delusion that they aren't appreciated.
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#6
My largest gripes with the game are a sheer lack of presence in larger officially public areas, I can't change nor do I want to change the behaviors of players who hang out in houses in their own little groups, its completely natural for players to want to flock to their friend groups and mingle among them, hell thats most of where my roleplay comes from anyways. However the Arena and Cellsvich are devoid of in character activity nearly constantly now. (The former of which likely due to some recent pvp balance changes)

We exist with a playerbase just large enough to feel active but just small enough to where if people grow sick of these places then they are completely empty almost.

Just because you might be able to go out and engage with those players in these houses doesn't mean you will always feel like your character might belong, as someone who likes to cycle between 2-3 characters at a time actively I find it hard to want to create a new character when I know I have to associate it to something to remotely hope of getting roleplay.
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#7
Hello! Just wanting to quickly chime in and note that I have been reading responses, even if I've not been speaking up much in the thread. Just in case, but I do really appreciate the system of eventmins existing and the effort that is put. I apologize if I gave the impression they do not matter by accident, though, but just to be clear.
[Image: Fern22.gif]
[Image: unknown.png]
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#8
I have been feeling on and off constantly for about a year and it has not subdued, instead it has just grown stronger as time passes. The community has grown more and more closed and it feels like finding roleplay that doesn't involve a specific group or being part of such just has grown hard and often not worth spending the energy and time towards that.

I do agree that the game is falling, the community's priority and mentality has shifted harshly to a side where it's either being used as a glorified chatroom or for their own personal quests. I usually make new characters to see if it helps with my constant burn out of the game but it often doesn't work well when they lack purpose or public RP of engaging quality. (doesn't need to be the best rp, but at the same time it has to not be a meme losing your time.)

I feel like public events is not the de facto solution, but rather a change of mentality of the community as a whole to go out and roleplay more outside of houses. Public events would only bring that during said event and then people would retreat back to their house hubs and that's about it. It won't be easy for sure, but with enough effort it can be brought back to the 'glory days' of the usual hubs being populated and good RP being delivered for anyone to join.

I feel really disheartening when I try to search RP out there only to find nothing or memes masked as 'IC'. Though I'll have to give the props for all the new players that the game recently have been gaining and seeing them RPing out there without much care for being stuck in groups and houses, it's a nice breath of fresh air.
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#9
I'll be keeping an eye on this thread.
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#10
I might've also seemed like I was calling out Fern with my eventmins statement, I meant to just reassure WaifuApple. Fern is a good noodle.

My friends and I have been discussing this topic together so I have more thoughts.

I believe that sometimes 'reactive' players can be created due to an unfortunate consequence of the size of the game. To put that into human terms, the Cellsvich Square is a fun place to RP when there's activity, but when there isn't activity you must plant yourself down and wait for others to arrive. You can't RP at passer-bys at the stores because they might be buying something and will dip soon after. No matter how out-going your character is, starting up RP at a currently-dead Cellsvich Square is pretty disheartening. I don't believe there is a reasonable solution to this, just giving my thoughts on how so many people can end up 'reactive.'

Another thought, I really feel the opposite that many do about guilds, groups, or cliques. I would not find any personal investment in the game if I was unable to associate my character with a group that shares a common goal. Groups like this help bring characters with varying motivations together and establishes longer lasting relationships. I like meeting new people in open areas but most characters I meet at the Cellsvich Square tend to disappear without a trace. This doesn't mean RP in open spaces is bad, I still love it, but I'm vehemently against the notion that open-space RP is dying due to group-based RP. They are different types of RP with different goals and results. I've involved my characters with guilds but I also have them hang out at Dormeho, since there has been a pretty active player population there.
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