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Bow Scaling Adjustments
#1
As the title says, this is a thread for making some adjustments to Bows.

I feel the STR scaling, while making plenty of sense, has turned Bows into a somewhat unappealing type for a lot of people who used to use them. I think this pain point is also felt harder due to Guns, who were also formally a primarily SKI based weapon, getting to retain some of this thanks to the Firearms scaling tag.

My proposal? I think we can afford to share that tag with Bows... but obviously Bows aren't Firearms, so I think we should rename it into the Precision tag but leave the effects it has as is, then sprinkle the Precision tag around on a good portion of the Bow options (while leaving some out for STR-centric options.)

(Here's a proposed list of what it could look like, obviously no need to follow this to a T.)

Adversity Annihilator
Sylphid -> Precision, Sylphid (30% STR, 40% SKI, 40% CEL)

Artemis Replica
(No Change)

Bow
Basic -> Precision (60% STR, 40% SKI)

Bow of the Green Forest
Cunning -> Precision, Cunning (30% STR, 40% SKI, 40% GUI)

Fae Bow
Electrical -> Precision, Electrical (30% STR, 40% SKI, 40% LUC)

Filcherbird
Sylphid -> Precision, Sylphid (30% STR, 40% SKI, 40% CEL)

Grandia
Finesse -> Finesse, Precision (30% STR, 70% SKI)

Gel'naia
(No Change)

Guiding Shot
Finesse -> Finesse, Precision (30% STR, 70% SKI)

Hunting Bow
Finesse -> Precision (60% STR, 40% SKI)

Knightslayer
(No Change)

Kraken's Sigh
Cold -> Precision, Cold (30% STR, 80% SKI)

Longbow
(No Change)

Magical Meteor
Magical -> Precision, Magical (30% STR, 40% WIL, 40% SKI)

Nighthunt
(No Change)

Razing Salamander
(No Change)

Redwing
Vampiric -> Precision, Vampiric (40% STR, 40% SKI, 30% VIT)

Sea Hunter Bow
Aquatic -> Precision, Aquatic (30% STR, 40% SKI, 40% VIT)

Soulshot
Spiritual -> Precision, Spiritual (30% STR, 40% SKI, 40% SAN)

Spirit Bow
Spiritual -> Precision, Spiritual (30% STR, 40% SKI, 40% SAN)

Star Shooter
Faithful -> Precision, Faithful (30% STR, 40% SKI, 40% FAI)

Thorn Shooter
(No Change)
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#2
Considering they are ranged weapons, a 'precision' tag would be perfect for keeping them in line, giving them lesser total scaling than most other weapons would normally have, and returning them to their status as largely SKI/GUI scaling weapons with emphasis on STR still.

I dislike just doing +1 Posts but this thread deserves a bit of attention too.
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#3
People tend to forget that, even though bows have the same scaling as swords. Swords get a lot of benefits on top of it.

Best weapon parts, Dragon Remains, a talent that grants them bonus SWA, a talent that grants them bonus Hit and Durability down, 90% of SL2's sword skills have massive range.

That tag seems alright to me, it goes well with what I've been whining lately. STR and GUI don't really marry all that much. Unfortunately I think out of all those scalings, only Grandia will see the most use given it's majorly SKI.

I'd say Precision should make it go the 60% SKI / 40% STR route in all those scenarios.
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#4
you don't have to be particularly strong to use a bow really, all that excess strength is gonna snap the string... I agree with these.
OOC Devourer Of Souls: it makes me feel like someone slipped me acid laced water
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#5
I actually like the new strength on bows. It makes more sense than guile in my opinion, and putting a lot of skill scaling on bows (especially in the 70-80s or 40-40 secondary) would make them too strong. There should never be a weapon that forgives you too much for neglecting a damage stat, and in this case it's particularly true because skill is something you already want to get to 55-60 scaled. With something like grandia you would get 60 scaled, some great defenses, and put 10-20 points in strength if you have the wiggle room, making it a very well-rounded build.

I've been enjoying a strength-based bow character recently and it's been pretty good. But meanwhile, one of my old bow characters got pretty much super nerfed. I think the scalings aren't the issue with bows, they honestly feel just fine right now when you compare it to other options. After all, bows can reach the highest range in the game, and that's a very powerful trait.

It's just that the change is so drastic, a lot of old character builds simply do not work with the new scalings, but you can still make powerful characters with the new ones. They're just less forgiving with stats.

I also disagree with the sentiment that bows don't require much strength in real life. Sure, it takes precision, but your strength determines whether you can pull the string at all, and how well you can keep that string drawn back for a steady shot. Perhaps crossbows could be added, which use guile as a main stat
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#6
60 strength is enough to throw carriages around IC. You do not need that much strength to use a bow. Not even remotely.
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#7
I think its fair to want some bows that scale purely off strength, but also to want bows that scale more like they have done historically.

The main issue I see is the conflict between people who like the old and people enjoying the new.

In the old system for example, Wyverntouched had very little synergy with Bow of the green forest due to it scaling Skill/Guile. But now with it scaling Str/Guile there is a lot of synergy with the weapon.
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#8
(08-28-2021, 05:30 PM)Tanasinn Wrote: 60 strength is enough to throw carriages around IC. You do not need that much strength to use a bow. Not even remotely.
But more strength means more control, and the bows in game may require much more pull force than in real life.

But I think it makes sense that some bows require more finesse, and that can be seen from finesse scaling, much like katanas are swords which require more precision than strength, despite being a mainly strength weapon.

There could even be bows that require guile, like smaller shortbows
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#9
He could always make a new tag call Archery whereas it -30% and +30% Skill ontop of whatever tag the prior bows had before. Pretty much somewhat the same as guns with firearm.

Like Adversity Annihilator
40% Str, 30% Skill and 40% Cel instead.

Whereas he can apply it to a good amount of bows and all.

Strength is needed to use Bow in RL BUT Skill is also needed as well as form. You need strength to pull the string back and shoot from a distance as much as people like to say 'oh it's skill' but it really isn't. You need skill to handle and actually shoot the arrow in the right direction as well as how to shoot against wind drag, what angle to take to reach its target and whatnot.
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#10
(08-28-2021, 07:38 PM)Senna Wrote: He could always make a new tag call Archery whereas it -30% and +30% Skill ontop of whatever tag the prior bows had before. Pretty much somewhat the same as guns with firearm.

Like Adversity Annihilator
40% Str, 30% Skill and 40% Cel instead.

Whereas he can apply it to a good amount of bows and all.

Strength is needed to use Bow in RL BUT Skill is also needed as well as form. You need strength to pull the string back and shoot from a distance as much as people like to say 'oh it's skill' but it really isn't. You need skill to handle and actually shoot the arrow in the right direction as well as how to shoot against wind drag, what angle to take to reach its target and whatnot.
-30+30 tags don't really do anything for scaling, look at how it affects katana builds, you still only have the same total scaling as before so you still need to build the same amount of strength as before, but now you have to match it with other stat just to equal a comparative 100% scaling weapon.
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