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Tactician's Changes vs Turn Order
#1
Playing Tactician as a sub-class is now impossible if your allies are faster than you, since Orders only last 1 Round. (I.E, they end once Round ends, making this a waste of 3M)

So, could this be changed? There's no way you can command your allies and build up ranks anymore, or even remotely be useful if Tactician is not your Main Class. It has so many MC-only limitations and boons already that its subclass is very moot and useless.


Quote:Order skills should normally last 2 rounds, instead of 1. On My Mark further increases the duration by 1, or gets its additional effect removed.


Alternatively.


Quote:On My Mark is no longer a 'Main Class-only' passive.
It's not that it's powerful such as the likes of Fleur; it's just that it got changed to be literally 'get this or you're not doing anything useful with the class's core mechanics'.


As if Analyze Weakness and Enemy Evaluation being halved was not bad enough on subclass. Nerfs made purely on salt back then due to how Cobra Stance worked.

(PS: Also yes, I'd like to just get ONLY this changed for now, I deleted the previous post for being too extensive and aimless, and after playing more BK/Tactician, this is apparently the only glaring flaw that I can't simply get over with or play around. If an ally is faster, they're not getting commanded -at all-. It's ridiculous. Apologies to the people who posted on the last! I hope it's understandable.)
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#2
Tactician could use a bit more love on the subclass side with this for On my Mark.

Although Analyze and Evaluation nerfs weren't just based on cobra it was just based around the overwhelming boring nature that someone and potentially their goofy eyes literally running around you in circles then popping extremely debilatating doom debuffs for barely any effort.
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#3
I do agree in that the specific effect of extending the orders to 2 rounds on On My Mark shouldn't be main class exclusive, its tantamount to the class' gameplay, but the rest of it is absolutely impactful enough to say should still remain main class.
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#4
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#5
Funnily enough the grandmaster passive benefits from stalemate, but you can't have stalemate and on my mark so the destiny dream kind of falls apart
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#6
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Also, if this wasn't emphasized enough. The reason you can't use Orders without On My Mark, and why On My Mark shouldn't be main- class only, right there in one picture.
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#7
(10-04-2021, 07:30 PM)Snake Wrote: Also, if this wasn't emphasized enough. The reason you can't use Orders without On My Mark, and why On My Mark shouldn't be main- class only, right there in one picture.

The problem is, On My Mark being main-class restricted is one of the only things holding tact back from being slapped into crazy combos for EE abuse. If the power budget of the class moved away from trying to unga SSS EE and into a more direct supportive role, I could see this (especially with how game-ending EE is in GR2). Tact presently is unfortunately railroaded into one effective playstyle that focuses on rushing EE instead of actually playing a supportive role. While slightly off the original topic, it's awkward as heck seeing tact be a better 1v1 class than a teamfight class due to teammates actively getting in the way of doing what you want-
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#8
I've had the audacity to further test it, with my class combo locked to BK/Tactician, Tactician subclass is too tame compared to main class due to the -50% cut in the LVs of Enemy Evaluation and Analyze Weakness, so even if On My Mark lost its main class-only clause, the fact you're capped to a (complete maximum, I.E Dark Eyes + SSS Rank) LV16 makes them not really notably debilitating (especially due to no On My Mark to -allow- you to stack up at a decent pace to begin with, due to no Orders nor round 0 shenanigans).

Even if you can stack it up at lighting speed, it's still pretty worthless when compared to its original, spine-shattering LV33 effect. And I'm commenting off-class Tactician in hindsight.

That, plus assuming the skills will still cost 6M both and no changes are going to be made, given my other thread's lack of smiles and agreements that halving the effectiveness of these two skills in exchanging the momentum costs is 'fair'.

In the end I'm all about making Tactician as a whole something that you don't need to lock down into 'go main class or you can't use this class at all', thus being why I'm so insistent that at the very least On My Mark gets free of its unnecessary shackles.
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#9
I agree with most of the sentiments in this thread, generally speaking, but I also have a preemptive suggestion to make:

If Tactician is changed to be a more viable sub-class, then it's going to be incredibly splashable (pun not intended). With that in mind, I could suggest an addendum to the way your performance rating is determined. You only have one chef in the kitchen, only one chief of police, and only one guy calling the shots on the battlefield; therefore, add a clause that says something like -1 tactics rank for every additional ally who is a Tactician, to a minimum of +0 tactics rank increase.

This way you have one true tactician on the team, rather than four people who all picked it up just because it's become more useful as a sub-class.
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#10
No, it will never be a 'viable' subclass. The only 'viable' way to run Tactician is main classing it, as I've stated, the LV reduction on AW/EE shoot the class's smooth gameplay in the foot, and not only that.

Even by itself, Tacticians don't work well together given they all overwrite each other's orders when they use their skills, and only -one- of the Tactician's teams can ever benefit from their allies obeying. Generally speaking, it will always be the faster. There's no need to over-complicate it or even cause bigger problems in the future with weird interactions that are already jank and not planned for team play. (funnily enough, since Tactician's theme is to be battle organizers, yet they perform better in 1v1 scenarios than not, lol)

The problem with sub-class Tactician is simple, too. Orders don't do anything if you are slower than your allies. I want that fixed by removing On My Mark from 'main class-only'. And das it mane.
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