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Korvara Playerbase Division Concern
#1
I just wanna start this by saying I'm hyped about the new "expansion", it seems really interesting and it might spur a lot of new interesting gameplay and rp and kind of revitalise the game somewhat.

However, I can't help but be concerned about the expansion for a simple reason:

From what I hear, Korvara will be difficult to access ICly and it may even require some sort of approval? If so, it would probably cause a huge division in the already thin playerbase. I know personally I'm interested in making a "korvana-only" character to experience it, but also a lot of the things I love about this game are tied to the Six. I invested months into multiple characters and, essentially, having Korvana be a standalone environment would make it compete with the Six in a strange way, meaning when you log in you kinda choose "Okay am I playing on Korvana or on the Six". There's already an issue of low population so splitting up people would mean both korvana and the mainland might not get enough traffic.

I just wanted to raise this concern here because it seems it's shared by a lot of people.

And I'm sorry to raise concerns based solely on what is essentially a teaser, but it would be nice to have information on that aspect so we can plan out in advance what we're going to want to do with that expansion.

Edit: To clarify, none of my existing characters would be interested in going to Korvara ICly even if I would be, so it's likely I would need to make a new character even if it's possible to do a 'transfer', and I imagine that's the same for many others
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#2
I was just talking about this literally five minutes ago with someone.

First I want to point out - It's not that some people think it's impossible to reach. To directly quote Dev; "It is possible at some point in the future that characters from Sigrogana can come to Korvara. However, initially, that will not be the case."

This is a very valid and important bit of concern and criticism to be had. We already don't have enough of a playerbase to populate the great six as is. People only show up to most places if there's an LFG or some kind of established player house, even on Sigrogana itself, not counting less frequently frequented places.

On top of that, the way it's presented - "spanning over a dozen connecting exterior maps, giving it a unique and appropriate sense of scale" - Implies it may be difficult/time consuming to go from one 'Kingdom' to another, and given these are to be player-controlled, it will mean further splintering of the playerbase. People who tend to stick to one-two characters will have difficulties, and unless this happens to heavily revitalize SL2, I can only see a good bit of damage being done to the ability to get RP in a lot of places.
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#3
(02-03-2022, 09:04 PM)Tana Wrote: It's not that some people think it's impossible to reach. To directly quote Dev; "It is possible at some point in the future that characters from Sigrogana can come to Korvara. However, initially, that will not be the case."
True, I forgot about that tidbit, I edited my post a bit from that

And yeah, I hadn't even considered the issue of having four distinct kingdoms that are entirely on the same map, not necessarily easy to get to, meaning even Korvara players might have a hard time interacting with others
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#4
I agree, I really like the general idea though.

But with the Combat also still borked, I am pretty sure what happens there and how people will "populate" these things with some of those meta-golems and with the lack of playerbase the already established cliques will simply "Take it over".
I adore it though for the idea. I always wanted SL2 a bit more player driven but I think its not 'ready' at the moment. Also systems like the Town marshalls are still very much not fleshed out an it seems those places would mostly benefit from such a system.

That all said its just concerns still looking forward to exploring these things.
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#5
Eh, won't be an issue.

Don't forget this is kind of like Albedo anyway. So there will be about a 25% chance of success and everyone will stay there because things went absurdly right, or 75% chance of failure as people can't live without their Stamps, Vampires, or e-to-z grinding/OP gear.
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#6
GONNA MAKE ME A BANDIT

GONNA CAUSE TROUBLE UP AND EVERYWHERE
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#7
The update has only just been announced and already parts of the community have picked up on the cynical attitude of "well, it's more likely to fail than not" - which is unfortunate, to say the very least, because a lot of effort has gone into this, and a lot of desire to make it work and to offer it to the benefit of players who wanted something like this in the first place, on the part of Dev. This is not everyone on the post, but for those of you it is - you could honestly be contributing a lot more insightful and valid concerns, like some others have mentioned here about the divide. The only way this stands a chance is if people are willing to give it a chance and not turn up their noses already, before release.

Regarding the current combat system - I get that the evade system is not everyone's favourite update child, but this update predates that in beginnings and prep, and it's simply a case of unfortunate timing that the work that needed completing got to that stage at an inconvenient time for the community as a whole. I'm sorry that we weren't faster in that regard, and able to pre-empt the evade changes with the mapping and such, but that's the way the cookie crumbles. People have been asking for less focus on the combat system and more focus on trying to enable RP in some ways for a while, and there were two major points on Dev's list:

- Trying to improve variety in the combat side of things (a sore subject right now)
- Trying to address people's desire to have more control over locations and the path those locations take

Steps in both directions have been taken, and your mileage may vary on how successful you think that is, or will be.

As it stands, the idea of a split community is valid enough, but the goal and ambition of Korvara as a whole relies on not allowing players to port their veteran characters over and waltz into positions of power just like that - a level playing field in the form of everyone climbing out of the same hole is the best chance we have at giving everyone a chance, because it's not like the positions of power wouldn't just go to cliques anyway if they were opened up on the mainland instead - and that in itself would require a much more jarring shift in lore to account for all the NPCs being written out or ejected in order for players to take the reins completely. I don't think that was ever going to happen, and to me this seems like the next best thing, and it's something worth a trial, and attempt.

As Dev said, he'd like to give this a try. If it doesn't work, well, at least he tried, and the maps will probably be just thrown open as part of the world if it fails, so it either works out or comes as new content later, anyways - the game stands something to gain eventually, either route.

I can't speak to the intended distances of travel between the locales, but I don't personally think it will be mechanically too different to get around from location to location, at the very least, if you want to play a traveller or a character of some sort, the map is one you can navigate through, that much I can assure.

The community already likes to stick to specific spots amongst themselves, based usually in their friend groups and such, so I don't think the continent will change much in that regard - people will be about just as divided as usual, just in new locations. I do admit that people who stick to a very small roster will suffer for that, in the sense that it will be difficult for them, with their mains not being able to access this new world - but if all the activity is there, I can't see the harm in them having a single character for the locale. If there's activity around for them to dedicate time to this other main in the first place, there's probably not much worry about them not getting any RP, and if there isn't, there's plenty of free time that can be used to explore the new horizon. In that sense, it's down to principle or attachment whether you pick a continent to reside on, you don't have to.

Finally, considering the recent state of the announcement as it is, it should be known that not all details, mechanics, and what have you are hashed out at the current - questions you have that might not have answers right now may have them in the coming future, if you choose to ask Dev about them. We do walk a fine line, but there are sadly reasons this is not free travel. Imagine Sigrogana based issues spilling over too soon, like Mercalan Tenets and the CKs before the idea has given itself room to at least try to root.
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#8
The community won't split over this any more than it will split over Lorywell Tomb being a new place to level. It's just more maps, more content, and an invitation to make new characters in a new economy that isn't overwhelmed with 8 million bank accounts. Events will still happen, probably more on mainland because Korvara seems like it'll be more player driven day-to-day content and won't need the boost.

Any sort of scenario where the community splits over this is already an observable 'split.' People go to their homes to roleplay complex, player driven scenarios with large groups all the time, and it's almost entirely disconnected from everyone else's play experience. The one hope we can get is that this unifies those people that were lost in their little bastions of storytelling with a promise that the experience that they secluded themselves into can be a more communal one in Korvara. I hold my own reservations, but the fact that this is happening acknowledges that people want a change. It might not work. I think it probably will for at least a while. Regardless of that, though, I'm just glad something is happening.

Edit: But now is the best time to demand jammer girls, the one thing that will bring this game from obscurity to universal popularity.
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#9
(02-03-2022, 08:58 PM)Poruku Wrote: From what I hear, Korvara will be difficult to access ICly and it may even require some sort of approval? If so, it would probably cause a huge division in the already thin playerbase. I know personally I'm interested in making a "korvana-only" character to experience it, but also a lot of the things I love about this game are tied to the Six. I invested months into multiple characters and, essentially, having Korvana be a standalone environment would make it compete with the Six in a strange way, meaning when you log in you kinda choose "Okay am I playing on Korvana or on the Six". There's already an issue of low population so splitting up people would mean both korvana and the mainland might not get enough traffic.

This is generally a pretty fair concern to have, I believe that Sigrogana will have different strengths to play to in comparison, and both will be different environments that both groups of people may enjoy, it may even breathe more variety into the game as roleplay between both of the areas will be different.

Low population may actually be the cutting line for Korvara, I think that at the very least, with no planned housing being done at the moment, it'll encourage more people on that continent to go out and find people to roleplay with.

(02-03-2022, 09:04 PM)Tana Wrote: This is a very valid and important bit of concern and criticism to be had. We already don't have enough of a playerbase to populate the great six as is. People only show up to most places if there's an LFG or some kind of established player house, even on Sigrogana itself, not counting less frequently frequented places.

This is very true, I cannot fault you that we do not have the playerbase to support active roleplay among the other great continents and cities, but there is a bit of a flaw to the way Sigrogana presents this.

There is nothing else to actually do, there's no activities or actions that spur someone to visit the likes of Chatarunga or Oniga, in the latter's case, people only venture out to Oniga to travel to Law's End to disassemble their goods occasionally, this used to actually drive some Law's End RP until people realized they never needed to be IC to do these things, so people stick IC in the areas that they know are safe to roleplay in, not in the sense that they would be in danger, but in the sense that some areas in the game just receive a lot more consistent, casual roleplay, such as with Cellsvich square, and sometimes the Badlands Arena or Dormeho

I think that the option to remain IC while convenient, will end up being a weird rule for Korvara, especially when 2 nations are supposed to be at odds with eachother, it is also my hope that in Korvara, the aforementioned issue with little to do becomes less of an issue, make it so rarer resources are in areas that are more contested with eachother, make it so that say farming becomes a real business to uphold, this can all be done by associating the supplies that each city might sell with actual, player driven activity, and economies perhaps.

Quote:On top of that, the way it's presented - "spanning over a dozen connecting exterior maps, giving it a unique and appropriate sense of scale" - Implies it may be difficult/time consuming to go from one 'Kingdom' to another, and given these are to be player-controlled, it will mean further splintering of the playerbase. People who tend to stick to one-two characters will have difficulties, and unless this happens to heavily revitalize SL2, I can only see a good bit of damage being done to the ability to get RP in a lot of places.


First off I agree that there would be some difficulty just running around and trying to find RP, especially if activity is low at the time, cliques will often be pressed into their little corners of the world and however not.

But I also think that realistically, since only two kingdoms would be at odds with eachother, and the other 2 serving as neutral parties, there would be plenty of incentive for those neutral parties to travel out and find roleplay in those other areas.

Also I think that there should probably be roleplay-specific rewards available, but I am unsure of anything to actually suggest, so I can't comment at this moment in time.
(02-03-2022, 11:13 PM)Shujin Wrote: I agree, I really like the general idea though.

But with the Combat also still borked, I am pretty sure what happens there and how people will "populate" these things with some of those meta-golems and with the lack of playerbase the already established cliques will simply "Take it over".
I adore it though for the idea. I always wanted SL2 a bit more player driven but I think its not 'ready' at the moment. Also systems like the Town marshalls are still very much not fleshed out an it seems those places would mostly benefit from such a system.

That all said its just concerns still looking forward to exploring these things.

Combat is still pretty concerning when it simply comes to evade, the system will likely need some looking over in terms of game health, but the literal rest of "GR2" as its being called was more than fine, infact I think the generalization of weapon scalings, gun changes and evade/accuracy caps was probably the best thing to happen to the PvP scene in a very very long time, and these should not be discredited by the flopping of Evade's current state.

(02-04-2022, 09:08 PM)FaeLenx Wrote: The community won't split over this any more than it will split over Lorywell Tomb being a new place to level. It's just more maps, more content, and an invitation to make new characters in a new economy that isn't overwhelmed with 8 million bank accounts. Events will still happen, probably more on mainland because Korvara seems like it'll be more player driven day-to-day content and won't need the boost.

Any sort of scenario where the community splits over this is already an observable 'split.' People go to their homes to roleplay complex, player driven scenarios with large groups all the time, and it's almost entirely disconnected from everyone else's play experience. The one hope we can get is that this unifies those people that were lost in their little bastions of storytelling with a promise that the experience that they secluded themselves into can be a more communal one in Korvara. I hold my own reservations, but the fact that this is happening acknowledges that people want a change. It might not work. I think it probably will for at least a while. Regardless of that, though, I'm just glad something is happening.

Edit: But now is the best time to demand jammer girls, the one thing that will bring this game from obscurity to universal popularity.

Very well said, I also agree that the community won't be as split as people think, especially for the first couple of months if people want to do their best to get the continent going, I think personally with enough effort by the global shroud of the community, we can all make this an interesting experience for ourselves, provided that the update itself does not flop in certain areas.

I also think that there is no harm in trying this new system either, there may be concern to be had about it and that's valid, but we won't know fully until its set sail, and everyone's given it a fair shot. If it falls completely flat onto its face, I'm sure that it can be repurposed in some way, or we can go back to our usual business somehow.
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#10
I think it's understandable for people to be dismayed about the Korvara update being announced in the way that it is. Like Appo said, this is allegedly in response to players wanting to have more impact on the world at large than what they have; but much of the negative response I've heard has to do with that impact being somewhere that has nothing to do with all the players have been roleplaying, and all the lore has been getting built up for many years now.

It's kinda like pining after the oil canvas behind the glass display at the arts-n-crafts shop for a long time, then for your birthday, you get an etch-a-sketch. Etch-a-sketches are nice, sure, and yeah, you got it because the gift-giver realized you were into art- But it's not really what you were looking for.

Doesn't mean korvara's gonna be a bad thing, though. Worst case scenario, it just becomes relatively barren after a month or two, and plans go back to the drawing board. Best case scenario, the game world expands in a lovely way. I'm glad to see lots of positivity in that direction, also.

I think, more than anything, the community just needs to be a little self-aware. I don't think asking people in a general sense to rise up and make content to get Korvara going will amount to much, and chastising people for feeling skeptical is just polarizing. Being accommodating of one another's concerns and interests is fundamental to a healthy RP space. So try not to dismiss each other's concerns.

My only thoughts on the combat angle that I'll be dropping here is- Yeah. I agree that combat is a mess right now. And that's going to affect Korvara's system negatively. For grinding, I don't imagine it'll take long for players to get up to level 60 if there's no level caps, and if scaling Black Doors or Static Dungeons exist. Those area already ifs though, which is why it's hard to speculate too much.

that's all i got
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