08-23-2020, 05:49 PM
So this is cool and all but if you want my take, since my thoughts are relatively simple on the matter as someone who abuses the ever loving fuck out of Null Shell whenever I can.
That being that i'm of the belief that the number of effects and the overcharge effect (more so this), added in with how hard it is to fit in crit evade into most commonplace builds that aren't made to counter one to three specific things/people or being shoehorned into certain classes and races (understandably) in order to realistically avoid/duck a proper Magic Gunner who fights you, is the real issue.
(You have no reason to read the rest of this if you have no desire to try and figure out what the hell I said below since it's more a scrambled mess of why I believe as such above. tl;dr of super awesomeness is at the bottom.)
Y'know, where if you rely on statuses, you just outright lose if the MG can touch you with null shell. Be it for power, more versatility with skill, whatever. Magic Gunner has an option for near everything and if they can hit you, most the solutions are often granted by poor play on the MGs part more than anything. This is doubly true if they can crit you consistently.
Still more of a severely uphill battle than anything.
Null can go screw people's statuses up for all I care. Balance is all out of wack in a multitude of ways that causes that to be a big yikes but that's like thirty threads about to become one there.
My main (and I do mean main) issue really just stems with one basic and simple thing. The overcharge effect. Nothing more, nothing less. I'm not too fond on just literally eradicating people's resistances, no matter how obtained, and having to either cleanse it via Wash Away, Burn Away (but hey, that only works on allies, not yourself) , a Cleanse potion, you name it.
Add atop the fact that it's a 3 round duration effect while also stacking atop all the buff removals (and also being entirely unaffected by One Overcharge, so any weapon will work the same with it, even ghetto mutated guns.) and doing damage is a bit much. Even if it's a 6m minimum investment. It's near to equally the same in terms of investment for someone to remove that or just get fucked, to put it quite simply. There's arguments to be had for that. Cooldown of Shell Effects, Cleanse Skills being 3m, blahblahblah. More on that later. (No, really.)
Most builds within realistic and feasible amounts of viability on a more global PvP scale currently will get heavily shafted or heavily countered by MG in this current state of balance and that's fine, whatever. Cool.
That's a byproduct of most people just going tanky hours and only about half of those tanks having crit evade without shoehorning themselves into Black Knight.
Teamfights change the entire dynamic as well and MGs are arguably far worse (as in, very potent and powerful and harder to deal with) in teamfights than 1v1s. It's just easier to produce that salt in a 1v1 since it's easier to make sure people dance to the tune of your gun and either give up or suffer trying.
But I shall not excuse the crime that is that overcharge effect. No matter what the landscape. Why the fuck can I invest 6m minimum to remove someone's racial identity partially or entire resist item slots or anything related to this?
"Because it can be cleansed/removed!" or "Because they can be easily reapplied/are mainly evade buffs anyway which are just fodder/filler!" If that's the logic we're gonna be going with, personally i'd start advocating for bringing a lot of crazy and outlandish stuff back. Since at the end of the day, yes. You can cleanse and remove a lot of what people would consider 'absolutely stupid/imbalanced' and the fault is on the opposing side for not using what they could.
God forbid you want to play a class or class combo that can't easily reapply things or use some ghetto resources or something else more horrific. Since from my experience, i'm positively sure the only time i've not suffered at the hands of Null Shell is when I was stacking evade buffs which serves its purpose either way just from the fact I have to be basic hit and if I did get cleansed, they took most the hit. I've only been able to consistently do this on Duelist Classes, Spellthief, Bonder and Ranger.
I would include being a Black Knight but i've proven that against the more evasive MGs who like to either run Cobra or have an abnormal amount of evade or more evade than what I can feasibly raise my hit to in order to make my build tanky enough to not die like swiss cheese to most the game, that the extra hit can come really in handy from Prop or Zuwang and what have you. (Although the latter isn't really a status effect so much as an innate bonus to feared enemies.)
Even then, if I don't waste enough turns buffing a ton?
"haha 6 statuses get cleansed" which, sometimes is less investment on the Magic Gunner's part to cleanse the far more horrific investment on the afflicted' side. Common status buffs that aren't "gain X while doing Y" tier are usually 3m in nature. Y'know. Rogue Wind Skills, Charge Mind, Enchants for Mages, Weapon Charges, things like Black Elixir, Tactician Orders, Body of Iseip or whatever, so on, so on.
Even if their classes don't matchup for it necessarily at times. That's fine. Why? Since technically, if you don't want to get fucked by basic hits, as shitty as it sounds and as awful balance as it is, you have class and race combos that can easily make an MG, within realistic expectations, unable to hit you. It might not fit your IC or suit your tastes, but the option most certainly is there.
But fuck having all my resistances removed and me either having to have a cleanse class on or risk having racials and entire item slots that aren't my arm slot invalidated. Arm slot being invalidated is fine. Cooldown for MGs existing also makes me shiver as depending on circumstances, they too, can just easily fuck me over as hard. God forbid i'm a race with an elemental weakness and they're running something on the side that can screw it over piss easily.
tl;dr "haha MG is strong primarily within the constraints of the current and commonplace meta in 1v1s and overall powerful in general when used right but fuck that null shell overcharge effect, that's the real issue I, me, myself, have with Null Shell. Also, lower amount of buffs removed from single shot null charge shot by like 1 or 2 pls thank you but pls focus on cucking the overcharge effect"
...
Now I know what you're thinking. "Why not give a potential change yourself?"
The answer is simple. If I had the brain capacity for suggesting a proper change, i'd have done it a long time ago. That's not within my capabilities of doing. I've thought long and hard about it but everything just comes back to what's been said in posts prior. It'd just remove the identity or not make it as worth/potent. I want a change where it's not as overbearing of an effect while not losing its identity but also not just becoming "okay, only a fraction of your resist" instead. Even if that latter part would be the most effective without doing something convoluted. (But the point about Physical Resistance Builds being affected by that is pretty worth listening to.)
tl;tl;tl;dr: I'm too stupid to think of a good change for Null Shell's overcharge effect.
That's all, folks.
That being that i'm of the belief that the number of effects and the overcharge effect (more so this), added in with how hard it is to fit in crit evade into most commonplace builds that aren't made to counter one to three specific things/people or being shoehorned into certain classes and races (understandably) in order to realistically avoid/duck a proper Magic Gunner who fights you, is the real issue.
(You have no reason to read the rest of this if you have no desire to try and figure out what the hell I said below since it's more a scrambled mess of why I believe as such above. tl;dr of super awesomeness is at the bottom.)
Y'know, where if you rely on statuses, you just outright lose if the MG can touch you with null shell. Be it for power, more versatility with skill, whatever. Magic Gunner has an option for near everything and if they can hit you, most the solutions are often granted by poor play on the MGs part more than anything. This is doubly true if they can crit you consistently.
Still more of a severely uphill battle than anything.
Null can go screw people's statuses up for all I care. Balance is all out of wack in a multitude of ways that causes that to be a big yikes but that's like thirty threads about to become one there.
My main (and I do mean main) issue really just stems with one basic and simple thing. The overcharge effect. Nothing more, nothing less. I'm not too fond on just literally eradicating people's resistances, no matter how obtained, and having to either cleanse it via Wash Away, Burn Away (but hey, that only works on allies, not yourself) , a Cleanse potion, you name it.
Add atop the fact that it's a 3 round duration effect while also stacking atop all the buff removals (and also being entirely unaffected by One Overcharge, so any weapon will work the same with it, even ghetto mutated guns.) and doing damage is a bit much. Even if it's a 6m minimum investment. It's near to equally the same in terms of investment for someone to remove that or just get fucked, to put it quite simply. There's arguments to be had for that. Cooldown of Shell Effects, Cleanse Skills being 3m, blahblahblah. More on that later. (No, really.)
Most builds within realistic and feasible amounts of viability on a more global PvP scale currently will get heavily shafted or heavily countered by MG in this current state of balance and that's fine, whatever. Cool.
That's a byproduct of most people just going tanky hours and only about half of those tanks having crit evade without shoehorning themselves into Black Knight.
Teamfights change the entire dynamic as well and MGs are arguably far worse (as in, very potent and powerful and harder to deal with) in teamfights than 1v1s. It's just easier to produce that salt in a 1v1 since it's easier to make sure people dance to the tune of your gun and either give up or suffer trying.
But I shall not excuse the crime that is that overcharge effect. No matter what the landscape. Why the fuck can I invest 6m minimum to remove someone's racial identity partially or entire resist item slots or anything related to this?
"Because it can be cleansed/removed!" or "Because they can be easily reapplied/are mainly evade buffs anyway which are just fodder/filler!" If that's the logic we're gonna be going with, personally i'd start advocating for bringing a lot of crazy and outlandish stuff back. Since at the end of the day, yes. You can cleanse and remove a lot of what people would consider 'absolutely stupid/imbalanced' and the fault is on the opposing side for not using what they could.
God forbid you want to play a class or class combo that can't easily reapply things or use some ghetto resources or something else more horrific. Since from my experience, i'm positively sure the only time i've not suffered at the hands of Null Shell is when I was stacking evade buffs which serves its purpose either way just from the fact I have to be basic hit and if I did get cleansed, they took most the hit. I've only been able to consistently do this on Duelist Classes, Spellthief, Bonder and Ranger.
I would include being a Black Knight but i've proven that against the more evasive MGs who like to either run Cobra or have an abnormal amount of evade or more evade than what I can feasibly raise my hit to in order to make my build tanky enough to not die like swiss cheese to most the game, that the extra hit can come really in handy from Prop or Zuwang and what have you. (Although the latter isn't really a status effect so much as an innate bonus to feared enemies.)
Even then, if I don't waste enough turns buffing a ton?
"haha 6 statuses get cleansed" which, sometimes is less investment on the Magic Gunner's part to cleanse the far more horrific investment on the afflicted' side. Common status buffs that aren't "gain X while doing Y" tier are usually 3m in nature. Y'know. Rogue Wind Skills, Charge Mind, Enchants for Mages, Weapon Charges, things like Black Elixir, Tactician Orders, Body of Iseip or whatever, so on, so on.
Even if their classes don't matchup for it necessarily at times. That's fine. Why? Since technically, if you don't want to get fucked by basic hits, as shitty as it sounds and as awful balance as it is, you have class and race combos that can easily make an MG, within realistic expectations, unable to hit you. It might not fit your IC or suit your tastes, but the option most certainly is there.
But fuck having all my resistances removed and me either having to have a cleanse class on or risk having racials and entire item slots that aren't my arm slot invalidated. Arm slot being invalidated is fine. Cooldown for MGs existing also makes me shiver as depending on circumstances, they too, can just easily fuck me over as hard. God forbid i'm a race with an elemental weakness and they're running something on the side that can screw it over piss easily.
tl;dr "haha MG is strong primarily within the constraints of the current and commonplace meta in 1v1s and overall powerful in general when used right but fuck that null shell overcharge effect, that's the real issue I, me, myself, have with Null Shell. Also, lower amount of buffs removed from single shot null charge shot by like 1 or 2 pls thank you but pls focus on cucking the overcharge effect"
...
Now I know what you're thinking. "Why not give a potential change yourself?"
The answer is simple. If I had the brain capacity for suggesting a proper change, i'd have done it a long time ago. That's not within my capabilities of doing. I've thought long and hard about it but everything just comes back to what's been said in posts prior. It'd just remove the identity or not make it as worth/potent. I want a change where it's not as overbearing of an effect while not losing its identity but also not just becoming "okay, only a fraction of your resist" instead. Even if that latter part would be the most effective without doing something convoluted. (But the point about Physical Resistance Builds being affected by that is pretty worth listening to.)
tl;tl;tl;dr: I'm too stupid to think of a good change for Null Shell's overcharge effect.
That's all, folks.
![[-]](https://neus-projects.net/forums/images/collapse.png)
