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Latest Threads |
The Economy and You
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Mastery of STR Crit
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Flash of Light
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New Weapon: Kelsoaker!
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SL2 Version 3.03
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Bows
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Yesterday, 07:16 PM
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Chimera Hit
Forum: Balance Fu
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09-23-2025, 08:28 PM
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Himari Izumi: Special Wea...
Forum: Approved Characters
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09-23-2025, 01:35 PM
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[v3.03c] Summon Drizzle
Forum: Bug Reports
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09-23-2025, 09:50 AM
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[v.3.03c] Combination Str...
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Last Post: Latto
09-22-2025, 12:47 PM
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Animal Pelt |
Posted by: renowner - 09-06-2022, 05:30 AM - Forum: Balance Fu
- Replies (4)
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Animal Pelt:
Armor: 4
Magic Armor: 2
Evade: 6
Weight: 1
Effect: +2 power to nature spells.
This armor is pretty much useless, and so i'd like for it to be buffed. A bonus to lightning attack, another effect entirely, better stats, or maybe just bonus damage to nature spells are all potential ideas. Its base stats are nothing special, and in fact its evasion is pretty bad. But the effect is just. . . So bad.
Maybe it could be reframed as an armor that makes one feel more in touch with their wild roots? Allowing instinct effects to trigger easier, or to have more power.
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[v2.63c] Back Attack Initiative Scramble |
Posted by: Kameron8 - 09-06-2022, 03:43 AM - Forum: Bug Reports
- Replies (2)
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When getting a Back-Attack on an enemy, it seems like the order in which your team goes is completely randomized. To replicate this, get a team of four people and take note of who is fastest, slowest, and so on. Then, perform a Back-Attack. Note that the order people go is completely random, and has no relation to their initiative stat.
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[v2.63c] Sign Editing Cancelled |
Posted by: Trexmaster - 09-05-2022, 06:41 PM - Forum: Bug Reports
- Replies (1)
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If you enter the sign text editor but hit 'Cancel' this will erase everything written on the sign.
Steps to reproduce:
0. Have a placeable sign down.
1. Click 'Edit' on the sign.
2. Click 'Edit Text'.
3. Click 'Cancel' on the text window that shows up.
All the text that might've been there will be erased.
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Dancer is still incredibly OP |
Posted by: sadbot - 09-05-2022, 12:11 PM - Forum: Balance Fu
- Replies (16)
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After seeing no talk of it for a while and being reminded in epic fashion of dancer's insane damage numbers last night in a pvp match, I figured that I would make a fresh thread on the subject. There are a few main points to cover here, so I will try to separate them into their own sections to make what will likely end up as a big wall of text slightly more coherent.
1) First and foremost, dancer's damage numbers are incredibly broken. Like really, they're not even close to ok. I'll give my example from last night, then go into a little more detail:
I was hit with a pair of thunder step hits for 112 damage each, if memory serves. Considering that this was through about 57% total magic dr and 7 magic armor, that means that the total damage for that thunder step was around 555. As far as I can tell, there were no damage modifiers at play here besides dancer's own kit, namely dance crits and max/close to max tempo. If you work backwards from there, that means that the baseline total damage for this skill before dr was about 342, give or take 5-10 either way for the somewhat rough calculations.
In my experience, 250 total damage before dr would be considered quite high damage for the average 3m attack on most builds except those going down the big number rabbit hole at major expense of other parts of their build. This is more than double that amount when set up, and nearly 140% of that amount at pure baseline with no tempo or crits at all, when that 250 number is usually after all the damage multipliers said builds can muster. This is not even close to okay. As an additional note, this kind of thunder step damage comes from about 72 lightning attack, not even that high by the standards of a class that only needs to build elemental attack for damage and gets a passive boost to all elemental attack that scales up to +12. Taking that into consideration when this thunder step was at or close to max tempo, this build had about 60 lightning attack, pretty mediocre by all standards. My numbers could end up being way off here, but I'm pretty sure it was Appo's dancer and I invite them to correct me if so. Regardless, these numbers are so insanely high that even if I am quite a bit off on something, the point stands.
This absolutely absurd damage comes down to two things. Firstly, the pure elemental scaling of dance skills is way too high, especially when you consider that most of them are movement skills with good range as well. Secondly, dancer has more passive damage multipliers built into the class than any other by a large margin, between crits and tempo. Lets look at some of the more common dance skills using the previously mentioned 60 elemental attack, incredibly low by dancer standards, just to make a point:
- Ice step - 70% ice attack, hits up to 5 times. That's 42 x 5 = 210. Add 25% for crits = 262. Add another 30% for max tempo = 340.
- Thunder step - 200% lightning attack, hits up to 2 times. That's 120 x 2 = 240. Add 25% for crits = 300. Add another 30% for max tempo = 390.
- Idol step. Let's see how that nerf measured up, and assume that it's all on one target so every hit beyond the first does half damage. 150% light attack, hits 5 times. 4 Half damage hits essentially makes it the same damage as hitting 3 times total. That's 90 x 3 = 270. Add 25% for crits = 337. Add another 30% for max tempo = 438. And this one does a big heal too!
Without even trying, these damage numbers go from matching the best of them at the low end without any crits or tempo, to absolutely insane with them. I can confidently say that most well built dancers can hit base elemental attacks 10-20 higher than this, before their passive tempo buff is even taken into account. Considering that the crit only numbers require no setup at all, you could cut dance skill scaling by a third across the board and the numbers would still go from average-high to nutty as you stack tempo. I don't wanna sound complacent or encourage toxicity here, but I'm honestly just left scratching my head at how people can defend this, or how it has remained this way without a nerf (or a much more substantial nerf in the case of a couple of things). This stuff makes freshly release rune mage look balanced.
2) Dancer's have too much in their toolkit. Lets take a look at some of the most relevant stuff here:
Bard- A passive +6 stat buff in their base class, the only one of its kind.
- A solid heal in their base class that's baseline is 125 and higher with song buffs, no scaling stat required. Aid eat your heart out.
- 10% sound resistance and 15% silence inflict resistance, for 1 skill point each.
- a 10% fp reduction to the cost of their base class skills, taking the edge off of one of their biggest weaknesses in rising fp costs as they gain tempo.
Dancer- Massive damage across the board and movement options while they dish out said massive damage, as stated in the previous section.
- 2 more heals, each scaling up past 150. One is a dance with massive damage alongside, the other offering an equally substantial fp heal. Though they are more situational and don't rival them in healing numbers, Dancer has more skills that provide substantial instant heals than priest at this point.
- 2 negative status cures. 1 for immobilizing effects, the other for up to 3 of any other kind. Though both carry hefty cooldowns, There are fairly irrelevant with the breakneck speed of dancer's fights thanks to its damage. Hopefully this will be fine if that's fixed.
- an 80-85% chance to dodge all skill projectiles with no off switch or counter play of any kind, as long as they're an evade dancer.
- A 25% and 30% damage multiplier, the first only requiring some crit building and the second stacking passively as they attack. The only downside is high fp costs along with the rest of the class, which are largely mitigated by dancer not having to build weapon scaling and often dumping will and/or faith/san to their heart's content.
- The ability to inflict a variety of status effects with signature step, often at very high likelihoods. Multiple infliction checks at lower but passable chances due to dance skills' multihits and dancer's often will dumped base infliction rates make them essentially guaranteed against those without high status res.
- A free +15 evade for the next attack every time they dance.
- The ability to ignore momentum loss from hitting elemental resist, absorb and immunity.
It's hard for me to outline any prospective changes in this section, due to the main point being that Dancer just has too much going for it. The only thing that I can easily suggest is that some of these things be reduced or removed in favor of something that helps with their hit problems, making them less powerful overall but more accessible without min maxed building.
3) Dancer's answers to its counters are too powerful and plentiful. The big three are these:
- Immobilize and similar effects. This isn't as much of a glaring issue as it used to be, now that one of them counts as a movement skill and can't be used to cure immobilizing effects. However, the one that does also tacks on a 3 round immunity. In combination with dancer's current damage ending fights at breakneck speed, that's enough to make them essentially immune to immobilizing effects. I would hope that this one won't really be an issue if that's gotten under control.
- High fp costs. As mentioned above, this legitimate weakness can be focused down to the point of not mattering due to dancer's not needing to concern themselves with weapon scaling. They're encouraged to dump will for widespread elemental attack bonuses anyway, and often have points left for faith and san besides. Rest beat, some fp regen stacking or support from a second class makes this weakness a non issue in many cases.
- lack of hit buffs/evade debuffs. The only thing in the entire game that Dancer actually doesn't have an answer to. It's gr2, them and a third of the other classes in the game. Welcome to the club. I'd like to note that this unanswered weakness is the usual point of defense for the asinine damage numbers that dancer throws around, but lackluster hit chances hardly excuse doing double the damage of every other build without even trying. This should be addressed nonetheless, as it should for every other class with little to no hit buffs/evade debuffs of some variety.
I think that about covers it. Feel free to tell me how right or wrong I am or add your own points. I just felt the need to get it out there as it seems like it received a couple of nerfs that did little to tackle the main issue of damage and now it's just being accepted as is and balance focus is elsewhere, when it still seems like one of the most overpowered things I've ever seen in Sl2 as of right now.
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Old sets |
Posted by: Lolzytripd - 09-04-2022, 10:23 AM - Forum: Balance Fu
- Replies (9)
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I'm currently of the mindset that Neverending story, and the whulf's claws needs some TLC
Shooting star from the whulf's claws could probably be changed to scale of Faith instead of willpower -or- just get a normal scaling of Swa+light attack. also could its range get increased a bit so that it feels less like discount Kadouha.
Also maybe like a potential for whulf that Martial artist skills would fire of shooting stars...
For never ending story I can think of two major ideas to make the set "viable"
Give them both 50% sound attack on hit and 50% light attack on hit, While changing twin dance to allow any weapons sharing a type OR a subtype
Change the rank 2 of the set effect so that they gain 50% of the matching fan. (konosekai gets 50% of your mugendai )
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Nighthunt Bow |
Posted by: renowner - 09-03-2022, 07:58 PM - Forum: Balance Fu
- Replies (3)
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I think the nighthunt bow needs a buff. Seems bad.
Reasons I think its bad:
1: Scaling.
Str is fine on a bow. But Res scaling? That's pretty bad, for a bow that's designed to help dodging.
2: Stats
Just generally lackluster stats. 8 Base power, 80 base accuracy, 0 base critical. 3 base range.
3: Effect. The effect is only -5 skill on hit for two turns. Which, in today's world with most everyone overcapping skill, only equates to probably around -5 to -8 hit on the target. Other weapons can do much more than that. Heck, moonblade gives +5 to +10 hit when it attacks!
I'd love to see the weapon buffed, the scaling changed, and/or the effect made a little less terrible. I think -10 hit would be fine. Or maybe it upgrades fear status to something else, or like, only does the -10 hit when someone is feared on hit.
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